Burnout, Balance, and Building Forums with Justin LaRocque

Burnout, Balance, and Building Forums with Justin LaRocque

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast, and today we're joined by the Unstoppable Justin LaRocque, a serial entrepreneur, transformative leader and founder of both ROC Advisors and River City Leaders Forum. Stick with us. You don't wanna miss this episode.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more. This is the Business Development Podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. In broadcasting to the world, you'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners.

CEOs and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business. Brought to you by Capital Business Development Capitalbd.ca. Let's do it. Welcome to the The Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host. Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello. Welcome to episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast.

And on today's expert guest interview, I bring you a returning guest, Justin LaRocque. Justin is a seasoned executive and entrepreneur with a deep background in finance and leadership. Having achieved remarkable success in multiple ventures as a chartered accountant with a decade of experience, he has led significant organizational transformations, including driving over 250 million in cost saving initiatives and guiding companies through successful exits.

Justin's expertise spans from scaling startup ventures to managing financial operations for large, publicly traded companies with revenues ranging from 5 million to 3 billion. His strategic vision and commitment to excellence have not only doubled revenues, but also propelled industry changing technologies to new heights beyond his professional achievements.

Justin is deeply passionate about driving change and helping organizations and individuals reach their full potential. As the founder and CEO of ROC Advisors and River City Leaders Forum, he continues to inspire and lead with a focus on innovation and growth. His journey is marked by a relentless pursuit of excellence, and his leadership has consistently delivered transformative results.

Justin LaRocque is not just a leader. He's a catalyst for success reshaping industries and empowering others to achieve their goals. Justin, it's really great to have you back.

Justin LaRocque: Thanks for having me back. It's, it's humbling to hear that. So that that's, that was a mouthful.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that you said that last time I did.

So it's only gotten to be more of a mouthful because you're even more successful than last. That's perfect. My gosh, dude, it's good to have you back. I have to say that honestly, episode 12, patience and Perseverance with Justin LaRocque. You were like my third

Justin LaRocque: guest dude. It well, and it's humbling. So for, for context, that week you called me and said, Hey, you know, do you wanna be on the show?

I was like, yeah, that, this is amazing. We actually, I dunno if you remember this, we did it at like 5:00 AM I was down in my basement still. I was, I was just getting my clients going. And so yeah, so very humbling. Now it's, it's not 5:00 AM and and yeah, in a proper office and such, so it's perfect.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I do remember that. And you know what, I think that was the only 5:00 AM interview I have ever done. I've done one 5:00 AM and one 5:00 PM and I think, yeah, that's it. It's like you and Colin Christiansen.

Justin LaRocque: There you go. Okay. I'm even more humbled now. Yeah. One of the two.

Kelly Kennedy: It was pretty funny 'cause I was listening to our show back ahead of this interview just to, just to re-listen and man, like we did a great job on the first show.

And so if you're like hearing this and you like talking to Justin, you like this conversation, you should definitely go back. Episode, I think it was 12 Patience and perseverance with Justin LaRocque. It was a long time ago, but man, we talked about some awesome, awesome stuff. Yeah, we covered a lot of ground so ho hopefully we can replicate today.

So, absolutely, absolutely. But Justin, episode 12 was like a super, super long time ago. In context like. Probably a year and a half ago at least, if not longer. As of this recording date, this isn't even the release. So by the time this comes out, we're probably talking closer to two years Yeah. Since that conversation.

So refresh us, man, you know, who is Justin LaRocque? How did you end up on this serial entrepreneur journey?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, for sure. So, so kind of just a little bit of a refresher. So the last time that we spoke I just finished the process of leading our family business to an exit. And then I ran that business as the COO, we integrated another one.

For about a year. And so when you bumped into me, I had just left that venture and started up ROC Advisors. So ROC Advisors really was gonna be a, a fractional CFO shop that, you know, big buzzword these days. So that, that's where we were really gonna play. At that time I was playing around at, at the idea of starting a second company river City Leaders Forum.

And at the time we hadn't incorporated that one. So really, you know, this time, last time we were on the call, I had just started that I'd already grabbed a couple clients. So I was, I was pretty fortunate. I, I was having some early success in those days. And I was gonna build out a team at first, you know, and, and so when we bumped into each other, I, I had those clients.

I was thinking about a team and I shortly pivoted after that. I said, you know what? I wanna focus on the family summer was, was approaching. And so I pulled back on that and, and consolidated down to a couple of customers. But yeah, I, I don't wanna get too far ahead that, that's where we bumped into me last time.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No man. And like, you know, I remember talking to you and we're gonna get into River City Leaders Forum, but I remember talking to you like over a year ago, and I remember, I remember exactly where I was actually, 'cause I was driving and I remember talking to you and we were chatting about that and I don't think you'd quite launched it yet, but you're like, Kelly, Kelly, I have this really awesome idea.

Just leave this with me for a little bit. We're gonna chat again soon, but I think you're gonna like it. And you've done some stuff with that since then.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. Yeah. So, so what happened with that at, at the time? When I was the CEO of the last business, I, I was approached by a leader forum organization and they said, Hey, we have this really valuable tool.

Basically we curate groups of CEOs or key roles, and we put you into a monthly forum and you guys get to share your issues and experience share. And for me, at the time, you know, our business was struggling. We were, we were trying to turn it around and I was like, what a, what a tremendous resource. But I am a cheap accountant and so they, they showed me the, the whole model and, and I was like, this is amazing.

Like, how much is it? And they're like, oh, it's only, you know, about 1800 bucks a month. And I was like, oh, geez, there's that cheap accountant in me. And yeah. So that mixed with my entrepreneurial side. I was like, yeah, I could probably just do it myself. So three years. Ago I, I started hunting out other similar CEOs and founders.

And the big thing for me was I wanted to curate around my age just to get people in the same life stage. And so, yeah, three, three years ago we, we formally kicked off the first group I. And, and so I was, I had that informally on the side. And so when we connected, I'd been running that for multiple years and always knew I wanted to bring it into Edmonton.

Sp specifically Edmonton, you know, I, I grew up in high level about eight hours north, but I've lived in Edmonton for, you know, over a decade now, and I love it here, right? This is, is where our family is. And so during that two year odyssey with the, that group, we end up calling it River City Leaders Forum.

And so naturalized like, well, that's what we'll incorporate. So, so May of 2023, we incorporated that. And, and basically what it is, it's more of a low cost option. So the exact same format as these forum, which is we go out, we curate groups of CEOs or key roles and basically we, we put them together in a monthly format.

And they experience share. It's, it's really straightforward. But kind of the two biggest tweaks that we do. There, there's three things. I guess the, the first one is we try to curate around age. And the reason for that is just life stage can matter when, when you're encountering issues. You know, for me, a struggle for me was, you know, I, as in my thirties, I had a young family struggling business.

It's a little bit harder for me to relate to, you know, a 50-year-old that has grandchildren in an established business. Yeah, so, so that's something we really try to do is, is get those average age around five years to the average. So, so the farthest part you'd be is about 10 years. So that's one element of it.

Second element. They tend to run them for full days. And for us we're like, you know what? I think let's skip the speakers. Let's skip all the other stuff. We'll just do half day sessions. So that's the other thing that we do. And then the third thing, which really was why it sparked we do it for 200 bucks a month.

And 20% of that we're gonna push back into Edmonton. We'll actually have our first grant here. That should be out, depending on when this is released, it'll either already be out or will be out shortly after that. So we're gonna start pushing 20% of our revenues into Edmonton, kind of either business grants, we'll look into scholarships, donations, things like that.

So. Dude, that's amazing. And

Kelly Kennedy: you know, for the people listening who maybe have never experienced what a leadership forum is, can we just go into why they're important? Because me and you both know, we've been entrepreneurs long enough to know that entrepreneurship is pretty lonely. It is a challenging, challenging profession.

A lot of the times you have ideas, but it's very hard to validate them, right? You're trying to Google, has someone done done this before? You might call a mentor or a friend and say, Hey, I have this idea, but what do you think? But. I think it can be really hard to find people that are experiencing the same thing as you.

So you know, obviously me and you know what they're about and why they're important. But let's just chat to like maybe some new entrepreneurs, ones that haven't experienced anything like this. Maybe they're not even entrepreneurs yet. They're on the fence, they're about to make the jump, and they're like, what do you mean entrepreneurship's lonely?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, so I mean the, the primary aspect I'll, I'll, I'll tackle it two ways. One, one will talk about how the form actually goes, like the, the structure of the meetings. But before that, you know, the reason it can be lonely right? Is you know, you start up this business and you have grand visions.

And then reality hits, right? You, you know, you, you earn revenue, but you haven't actually got paid, you know, cash flow's falling behind it. Mm-hmm. I think we actually talked about cash flow tips in our last podcast. We, we did, we did. So refer back to episode 12 for that. But, but, so, you know, you're, you're running into cash flow issues.

Maybe you've got a couple employees and you're sitting there and it's the end of the day and you're like, you know, I'm lonely, right? I, I don't wanna bring this stress home to my family. And, you know, have my kids and my, my partner have to deal with that. It's not appropriate to really discuss with my employees.

You know, they, they're depending on their maturity, they probably haven't tackled something like this before. Sure. And so you just, you really end up in a spot where you need somebody to bounce ideas off of and just validate, Hey, like, I'm not the only one going through this. Right. Or I'm not, I'm not crazy.

Again, like sometimes you get great ideas out of these forms but other times it's just having somebody listen to you. I. And, and, and that's really, you know, we, we can go further into that maybe on this podcast, but that, that's the kernel, right? That's really, if I, if anyone said why would I join a forum?

It's just, there's nothing really like entrepreneurship right there. There's nothing really like the highs and the lows 'cause they're just so high and they're so so, so, and then maybe just to give structure around how that would come to be in a forum style. So what happens is we tend to meet from noon to five, you know, and, and that's pretty conscientious.

Everybody wants to get home to their families, so we try to do it during the business day. So what we'll do is, is noon to one, we'll break bread together, right? So we rotate hosts and, and we bring lunch in and, and we break bread together. That's more informal, just the ability to make relationships, right?

Because that is another nuance of this. Like you are building your network, right? It's not the primary function, but undoubtedly when you share stuff you just become closer. So that's from 12 to one. And then one to two, you have a check-in. So you're really checking in on, you know, how's work going, how's family and friends health and hobbies.

And really this is just getting people centered around how are they in the meeting today? Right. It sometimes somebody will come in and they're having the best month of their life, right? And other times somebody comes in, they're having the worst month, and that's gonna calibrate for the people in the meeting on how they wanna speak to that person, right?

If they're having a tough month, you know, you might wanna have some softer gloves in that meeting, right? And then really where the, the true value is derived is after that you get into issue processing. And, and so that's the, the fundamental element of it. So what you would do is, you know, let's say I was a member.

And it can be the full gamut. It can be, you know what? I'm considering buying another business and, and I've never done this before, right? Has anybody done this? Can you share your experience or recommend like a trusted advisor? Or it could be all the way to the other side, Hey, you know, my partner and I are struggling, or, you know, my kids are getting older and, you know, they're, they're struggling to understand why dad's not home.

Things like that. So it, it can literally be the full gamut, whether it's business to personal it's the whole being in the forum.

Kelly Kennedy: My gosh. Yeah. And, and you know, when you touch on the cost of this, I just kinda laugh 'cause it's like I've been to personal therapy. Personal therapy at this point is 220 bucks an hour.

Yeah. Not, not 220 bucks or not 200 bucks a month, you know? Yes. Like, and when you consider that, that's kind of what you're ultimately getting is like an entrepreneurial therapy session, I think it's worth every penny.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know what, like, like I say, so we started in May. And this, this kind of maybe transitions a little bit into selling and stuff, but when we first got going, so we had our original set of members.

So there, so there's six of us. We had one member, our first member joined in June of 2023, and by November, I think we're still around seven or eight. I. But slowly we through a couple different strategies. We're actually up to about 26 members right now. Wow. So, yeah. So we've had a lot of success.

So.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. And like for the age groups, do they tend to be on the younger side or are you getting

Justin LaRocque: some people that are a little bit older as well?

Yeah,

you, you know, we have a little bit of everything, so, so as an example, you know, we have a couple different groups popped up right now. So how we curate is on role.

On size of company and on age. And, and so kind of the two groups that we have, speaking to the age side of it the one group would have an average age, about 36, and the other group has an average age, probably about 43. Yeah. But with that we actually have some younger individuals that, although they aren't entrepreneurs, they're in key roles and they're under 30.

They've actually expressed interest in this idea as well just because the owners of their businesses that they work with are, are in RCLF and they said, Hey, this seems like a great tool. So as an example, I'm actually curating like a young professionals group. That would be under 30. And then on the other side of that I've had individuals that are in their fifties that have reached out and said, Hey, you know, I'm still on the entrepreneurial journey.

I would get value out of this as well. So, you know, really we see the focus kind of in that 35 to 45 window. But with that, you know, like I say, we are curating a younger group, an older group. And, and again, you know, we've talked about this from the entrepreneurial perspective but really it's for all leaders.

And so, like, as an example I'm halfway through curating a CFO group as well. Like a, a large organization, CFOs. Yeah. You know, d different needs for those styles of groups. But, but ultimately, you know, still some value in.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, totally. One of the questions that I have is, are you finding that it is established entrepreneurs, and by established, I mean like they've, they've been in business a couple years, right?

Yeah. Like, let's just say a two years on average, right? Yeah. I think, I think in the beginning, like you said, as entrepreneurs, we jump in with both feet and we're like, all right, we got this. We'll figure it out. But I think by the time you're weathered, by the time you've done 2, 3, 4 years, you're like, holy crap.

Like, I've been in the ring a minute. I think I might need some help with this. Yeah. Are you finding that that is the typical entrepreneur who is joining River City leaders, or are you getting some of these like, brand new entrepreneurs?

Justin LaRocque: I, I would say it's a little bit of a mix. I bet if you looked at the average, you know, I, I think again, with age also, I find they tend to be in business for longer.

I, I think that's a natural association. But yeah, I would say, you know, we have some that would be like pseudo startup, you know, less than a year. But for the most part, I think you're right. You know, it's kind of over that two year hump where again, you have the euphoria of the first year and it's like, I'm my own boss and I'm doing it and I'm loving it and you know, who cares about the wave that just, you know, tossed me over?

I, I can do it. Yeah. By the end of year two, that wave's not as fun. You know, you're like, I maybe you wanna learn to surf instead of swim through this thing and you know, get some resources to help.

Kelly Kennedy: So, oh my goodness. Dude, I was laughing so hard when I was listening to mine and your first show, literally this morning, I wanted my recap and I.

Gosh, I was so ambitious. I wasn't beaten up and weathered by this podcast yet.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, yeah. Well, you've done pretty good though. You've stayed very consistent. I mean, you said that you were gonna do it and you've done it, so that's hat's off to you.

Kelly Kennedy: Thanks, dude. Thanks. And you know what, first off, just let me pause here and say like, gigantic thank you to you.

Because if it wasn't for our very first guests, I'm not sure that I would've been able to continue this thing, Ron. But like we were so fortunate to, you know, have, have you come on, have. So many amazing initial guests that really motivated me and encouraged me because I know at that point you're like, Hey, you know, you're doing a great job.

Just keep this up. And I remember we had a video chat 'cause we were, you were looking at that time to start potentially a video series. Yes. Did you ever pursue it?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, I didn't do it. You know what, I honestly, it it like, maybe it's a good or bad thing. I realized when you said what had to be done. And I was like, yeah, you know, I, I'm not prepared to do that.

So I I, you know what, yeah. I was like, he's right. And that's a lot of work and I just don't think I can do it right now. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Well I'm sorry and You're welcome. Yeah.

It's so funny 'cause it's like. Even since that time, obviously video podcasts have kind of took off. Yeah. Peaked and then now it's going back again because people are realizing that these video podcasts, people aren't, aren't really watching them. Interesting. Okay. What they want to do is still listen to podcasts and so we've like, honestly, since me and you met last, it's ridden this wave of like, oh, everyone's doing a video podcast.

Yeah. Oh wait. Only 2% of people actually watch the videos. Oh, we're going back to audio. Interesting. I. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a crazy ride. So if you look at like what is successful, for instance, for video podcast, obviously it's like Joe Rogan and all these like big highly produced shows where you can bring guests into your studio, interview them right on the spot.

But like I. You know, one of my favorite shows is like a podcast called Scared to Death. They literally did, they do, they do horror stories. It's hilarious. Yeah. But if you, I big shout out to Scared to Death. Yeah. But yeah, they did video shows for five years and they like just shut it down. And they literally came on.

They're like, we're not doing video shows anymore because it's just only like. 2% of our listeners are even watching the videos at, we're an audio show. And you know what, like I've been saying that since the beginning and I've been talking to so many people that podcasts are an audio experience. If you want video, there's a million YouTube channels, but a podcast is an intimate audio experience and I, I'm like a strict believer in clips.

We use clips now. I think they're really important to let, so that people can see what's happening or like important ideas. But my gosh, like, I, I still don't think that I would wanna watch my own show, so. Interesting. But I'll listen to it.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's fair. Like, I, I love listening to podcasts when I'm like doing the laundry, driving around, like it's, yeah.

I usually don't sit down with my iPad and, you know, watch the whole thing. So.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, to me, I think that that's the benefit, right? Yeah. It's like it's a nice passive audio experience. Most of us are entrepreneurs. If we're listening to a show like this, we're, we're leaders of some type, like it is not like an average person who listens to a show like this.

It's people that are looking to grow, looking to do better in business, looking to grow their business. And like, let's get real. Me and you we're like, we probably block our calendars like no tomorrow just to make anything work because we're trying to balance family life work and in your like in and on a side hustle in both of our cases, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Very true. So time is so critical, right? It's like the more things that I can do at once and I get it, it's not always ideal to do two things at once, but. Listening to podcasts is one of those things I always do when I'm doing something else.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, yeah. Well, and you know what as a, as a side comment to it so Alex Ramzi, who, who also does, you know, books and podcasts and all that stuff, he, he made in his books, he writes, that you, if you read and listen at the same time, it almost like heightens the value out of it. Wow. And so I've tried that a little bit as well. So like when, when you kind of say like, how do we like mash things together to be super efficient? Is is like reading and doing the audiobook simultaneously?

Now I've tried that a couple times, so.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh my gosh. And since the last time me and you met, we've interviewed so many authors and I'm like, I'm such a stickler for it. I won't interview an author until I've read one of their books. I just, I think it's wrong. Yeah. I think it's wrong to interview an author or a leader who has a book and not read their book.

And yet I know so many people are like, well, why do you do it? You don't have to read their book. I'm like, I do though. I do. Like I need to know. I need to know what it is they're saying so that I can have a much better conversation. So on the show. I read every book, but dude, ugh. In some cases I'm crushing out four to five books a month.

Yeah. And it's like, I'm sure for some people that was normal. That was never normal for me.

Justin LaRocque: You're dedicated to the craft, so it's good.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think there's a right and a wrong way to do everything, and unfortunately I try to do everything the right way. That's not always the fastest way though.

So Justin, I wanna get into what it's been like to grow this leader's forum. Right? We talked a little bit ahead of the show about like momentum and flywheels and essentially different sales tactics and, and different things you've used. And I think that it's like super relevant for something like this.

We live in a time where personal branding is becoming more important than ever, and I kind of see like what you're doing with River City leaders. Is really building a, a brand which ultimately will associate with you, which is kind of cool. So talk about that, like people are looking to build a personal brand.

What has worked for you?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, so, so what I've done, so when we first started River City leaders you, you do the first thing that you always do in sales, right? You reach out to who you know. And so, so that's what I did. I reached out to my personal network and just kind of pinged and, and saw if anybody would be interested.

And so, you know, to, to give our listeners kind of an idea of like the timelines on these, you know, I incorporated in May I. And so through the summer, I was fortunate, got to hang out with the kids, so I was, I was moving a little bit slower on the bd. But by the end of summer I probably reached out to most of my network and kind of saw if there was interest or not.

And so coming into September, October you know, I was starting to get into like friends of friends, right? So, so again, starting to branch out on that network. And, and I guess a couple interesting things about, about selling. The first one is this. So when I was in the Friends of Friends stage I, I, it was actually about October and I'm driving to the, to the forum, our original one with a forum member, and I said to him, he knows I'm trying to grow the thing, and it's, it's the importance of this, the ask.

Okay? So all these forum members knew I was trying to grow the business and I'm driving with them and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm really struggling to fill this last role and this is the person that I'm looking for. I. And then I turned to him and said, do you know anyone? He is like, you know, it's funny that you asked like, yes, I know the perfect person.

I will connect you to them right now. And it was so interesting because I've, I've been talking for the past several months about the, you know, I need to find these members, but it wasn't until I had them, you know, one-on-one in my car. Directly asking. And so I think that's a really important thing, right?

I think in, in business we assume that 'cause we're associating with people, they're gonna ask us to do business with them. That is definitely not the case, right? Yeah. That, that is, you have to explicitly say, I would like your business. Right? I would like your help. You know? And so, so that was in October, so I added add that member.

And going into 2024, like I say, you know, I hadn't had the success that I thought we were gonna have. You know, I, I, I thought that by that point, maybe we'd be at 12 or 15 members. And like I say, we were probably about seven or eight. And so I was like, okay, well I'm gonna have to switch it up. What, what am I gonna do here?

And so I actually registered for LinkedIn Sales Navigator. Yeah, and I was like, I'm just gonna start reaching out to people and giving them the, the basic pitch in the connect message and, and see what happens. And so, you know, I like great tool, you know, it's a thousand bucks a month or a year, excuse me.

You get full visibility to the LinkedIn network. It, it's basically a pseudo CRMI would say. And so what I started doing is drafting different messages the first one to connect and then the second one once I've connected and so and so forth. And I was able to have a lot of success with it. And long story short I went from eight to 26 within the last about five months.

So, so that was really successful. Wow. And then, so this is, you know, tying that into the flywheel. So now where we are is, you know, people in the forums are, the forums are starting to pop up. They're starting to see value outta these forums. And so now we're getting the flywheel of referrals, right?

So, so in the last couple months, we've already had three different referrals come our way. And so this is, this is the, the really interesting part about building a business, right? You, you start out and it's a really slow grind. You know, you tick to one, you tick to two, you, you feel like you're fighting up a mountain.

Yeah. But eventually you find certain strategies and, and so. What we've now found is, like I say, you know, I, I do outbound on LinkedIn so I do, you know, probably about 30 to 50 connections a week. Yeah, all within the Edmonton community, and typically I'm able to get about three coffees outta that y you know, and it like per month.

So, so, so it works out pretty well. So we've been able to do kind of cold outbound yeah. And then like I say, the referrals are starting to stack up. And so we're starting to get more and more referrals. And so really, I, I, you know, I almost shouldn't say this out loud, but I do say this to other people, but there is a tipping point as well because currently right now we're still a young forum, right?

And there are others in town. So, so we're about 26 members. The others would be about a hundred and twenty five, a hundred and fifty. And they've been around for decades. And so the interesting tipping point that, you know, maybe the next time I'm on this podcast is that we're actually, I suspect, gonna be able to pull over entire forum groups.

Oh, wow. That, that's really, you know, where I think we'll be able to go. Because again, you know, we're, we're an Edmonton focused group. The price point is right. We're giving back to the community. And so really once we're able to establish our credibility, I think that's the thing that's missing still.

We're, you know, we're just over a year old. That's where I'll, I think you'll really see the, the cool things happen because again, like I say, most of these forums are about 1 25. Yeah. You know, a decade from now, you know I really believe, we'll, we'll be north of two. Wow. I, I really believe that.

So, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. You know what? And I know you, so I kind of feel like you're, you're probably gonna do it. One of the cool things about it is just the fact that, you know, it's affordable. You're right. I think like a lot of these most. Small businesses or even medium businesses, can't justify $2,000 a month for, for something like that.

Yeah. It's just not, but we do need the help. Like that's the thing, right? Like we need the help. Young entrepreneurs, we're struggling because we don't always have that mentorship. Maybe that, that I. Older generations had. And I think a big part of that is because we live in this like weird connected time, but nobody's really connected.

Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We're supposed to be more connected than ever and Yeah. You know, I'm sure if you look at any of our LinkedIns, we look like we're connected as crazy, but like the reality of like interpersonal close connections, many of us only have a handful, me included.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. Well, and, and you know the interesting part about that, so when we were starting the very original group years ago.

We'd actually fully curated it. And Covid hit actually. And so we actually made the decision to not meet until that was fully resolved, just for that very reason. 'cause we said, you know, we want to be able to develop like true connection and if we start this up, not everybody knowing each other.

'cause I, I curated most of the group and so they knew me, but not each other necessarily. We were like, we don't know if we'll have the success that we're looking for. And so that, that's. To that very comment we actually have, like in-person is, is a, is a mandatory requirement of it. And just, I wanna go back for a second just so that I don't throw too much you know, shade at the other forums.

The one thing I would say is like, if you have the, the funds to do it even paying that 1800 is worth, you know, so I, I do, I do want to tell people that, you know, I, I think what I would say is. The value is assuredly there. We're just offering it at a much lower price point. But, you know, I, I don't want to, don't wanna ruffle too many f feathers.

You know, the value is, is absolutely still there for all these other forums are forums for everybody. Should all business owners join a forum? If, if you were to ask me, I think you should. Now the common, you know, call it objection in our sales cycle that we get is, well, you know, I, I have a board.

Or, you know, my business is fine or I have great employees, you know or, or maybe I don't have time. I don't have time's. Probably the biggest one, but Sure. I think the thing that I would say to anybody that's thinking that is it's great when it's going well, right? But it, it's, it's in the tough times that the forms are really worth it.

You know, if, if you go to your forum meetings and let's say you have 10 to 12 in the year, you know, you might go to eight of them and be like, you know what, if I didn't go to this i'd, I'd probably still be okay. But when you're in a tough time, you know, there's, there's gonna be two to four that you go to in a year when you're having a low time and you can bounce off or, or, you know, have a sympathetic year.

And that's gonna be all that value delivered in that point in time, you know, and yeah, so, so that's really what I would say is, you know, like, make the time. It's, it's one of those things, you know, emotional health, such a big topic these days. And this really is just that, you know, you called it therapy, cheap therapy, emotional health.

It, it, it's all those things. So, so for me, I, I just see a ton of value in it. When you're in the forums, 'cause obviously do you, you lead them or you just participate? Yeah, so what we do is, you know, each, each one has a different, each of these forums has different styles. So with RCLF, what we do I personally curate the groups and then I will facilitate the first three to six meetings.

And then after that we turn the facilitation within the groups. So I'll, I'll elect a moderator within the groups and keep in touch with them and make sure that we're still maintaining consistent format. But, but that's how we do it basically, is we curate. We build momentum and connections in the first three to six meetings, and then we turn it within the group.

One of the questions that I have

Kelly Kennedy: is, what are some of the challenges that you're seeing coming up over and over and over again in these groups? Right? Like I think that that's an important standpoint and the reason being is that I. Sometimes if we understand what the challenges are that are coming up.

Mm-hmm. Someone listening right now might be like, you know what, that's me too. I think I need to show up to something like this. So I think maybe speaking to what are some of the topics that are coming up in the forum, what are some of the challenges that you're seeing Edmonton business owners facing?

Yeah. And you know, what are some of the resolutions maybe that, that have been put forward?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. And so, so what I would say, I'd, I'd start off by saying, you know, the actual forums themselves, a huge pillar for them is confidentiality. You know, so I can't necessarily share other members things on this, on this podcast.

Sure. But what I can speak to is, is things that I've brought into the forum over the years and what I would say is like. This is very similar to other people's shares, you know, so, sure. I'd, I'd wanna respect other members that, you know, confidentiality's big. So I'll share some of the things that I've been able to bring that I would say are relatively consistently heard by other members.

You know, so I, I think, you know, something that's coming up. We, we had it, so again, I had a, we had a family business and, and my parents, you know, had run that business for a decade plus and, and they were ready to get out of it, right? And, and so I think what happens is you're, you're trying to find, you know, should we bring advisors in for this exit?

You know, am I gonna get what I think this business is worth? You know, how can I leave this business? What am I gonna do once I leave the business? So I would say that's, you know, a big topic that I really use the forum for is to get both the experience share from individuals that had left their, their businesses or had gone through the process and, and kind of issues and obstacles they encountered.

So, so I think that that would probably be, you know, a, a big one that we see right now especially, you know, you have the baby boomers and so, you know, whether it's exiting or entering businesses, I think that's a huge thing. And, you know, I think we'll continue to see that for the next five, 10 years. So, so that would be, you know, a, a topic that I see arise often.

Something that you know, we, we struggled with and, and again, other members have alluded to this you know, getting employee engagement, you know, specifically in the last couple years. You know, like kind of post covid. I don't, I don't think there's a new thing for, for listeners to hear. Right. But I just think it's a, it's a different world, you know, you know, get, getting, you know, loyalty I think was something that, you know, pre covid, people still were loyal to companies.

But, but maybe loosely, I feel post covid, a lot of people have know, acknowledged, like, Hey, this is, I, this is just a contract at a point in time. You know, the, the concept of loyalty is, has really kind of gone away and, and so I think, you know, that's hard as a business owner, right? Because I think, you know, before it was very much like, hey.

Let's get you that education or why don't you take a couple extra days? Or why don't you do this? Right? And, and now because of the reset on that relationship, I think a lot of owners struggle with, you know, what is the right level of investment for employees and, you know mm-hmm. What is fair for them, but also for us.

So that, that would be another kind of hot topic is so kinda like entering and exiting business. You know, managing the employee relationship in this new world. And then, and then probably the other one and this is a broader bucket, would just be like, again, emotional health at the family level, right?

Yeah. Growing a business is really hard, right? Yes. And, and so it's really just, and again, it probably more experiencing share and or experience share, as well as just having a sympathetic ear, I guess, of. Hey, you know, I had a really busy month, you know, and I, I didn't really see my family like I should have.

Right. Yeah. And, and having people look across the table at you and, and say a, like, I've been there. And that's, and that's tough. But then b, you know, also holding you accountable and saying like, but you also need to improve. You know, like this, like, we're here to help you and support you and listen to you, but like, we've gotta hold you accountable too.

Right? Yeah. And, and family's important. So I think those are kind of three topics that you would see arise in in a lot of forums.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I would say probably one of the largest, if not the largest challenge I have faced since I became a business owner since I launched this podcast has been family balancing, balancing Life.

Yeah. Which I have just come to the conclusion that it's total bullshit and work-life balance doesn't exist. But I've had other people say, well it does, but you know, you have to make it exist. And I actually agree with both points. What's super funny is I've talked with incredibly successful people on this show who have said I earned it.

And you know, in my opinion, that's kind of what I've ultimately come to with a conclusion with work-life balance. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of people who feel one way or about it, or it doesn't exist on the other. I. But I do think that like there's a point in business where you get to earn it.

Mm-hmm. But like in my experience, like anything worthwhile in life, you gotta work for it.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. Yeah. This is true. This is true. Yeah. Yeah. Now, now I'm curious though to, to drill into that. When they say they've earned it, what, what does that mean, do you think?

Kelly Kennedy: Okay. So there was a guest that I had on the show who basically, basically busted their ass for 10 years, and now they're down to working, you know, a four or five hour work day.

Yeah. And, and that's it. Like, that's all they need to work. Like that's where they're at. The business runs itself. Now, if they want to put in work, it's four to five hours a day, and they get to have that, but it's like. In my mind, they had to work 10 years in the business on the business to get it to a stage where then they could achieve balance.

And that I, on some levels, that's nice. 'cause it's like, oh, it's something to look forward to. But on the other hand, it's like, my God, that's 10 years. Yeah. Like my kids are gonna be grown up in 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Very true. How much are you willing to sacrifice? And I think that. For a lot of business owners, that is the question.

Mm-hmm. How much are you willing to sacrifice to succeed, because it's not going to come without some level of sacrifice.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah. That, that's fair. You know, and I, I think, you know, my, my framing on that, you know, and, and maybe I would, I'd kind of veer on the other side of the spectrum and, and I've kind of learned this through experience, both, both good and bad experiences, but you know, I think for business owners, it's, it's great to put the time in on the business and think that in 10 years, you know, I won't have to work as hard because I put all the time in the business. But I think you have to think about your family and friends in the same lens, right? So if you're not putting time into family and friends.

10 years from now, that's when you have to put all the time in and you're behind. Right. So I mean, I think compounding works on both sides of that coin. Yeah. And I think that can be, you know, a hard lesson to learn, you know, is when you get five years down the road and you haven't put that time in and put that investment in.

And you don't, you, you aren't seeing any compounding on the friends and family, and it is going the other way. I, I think that's the, the dangerous side of that coin, so I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I.

Kelly Kennedy: I agree. I agree. Right? Like it doesn't, whatever you're focusing your energy into is what's gonna grow, right?

Yeah. And if you're not focusing it, yeah, I totally agree with you, but my gosh, and this is something that I think going to a forum is very important for, because I think on a certain level, every business owner is struggling with this because. We all care about our businesses. We all want them to be successful.

We're all pouring our hearts and souls and finances into them, right, to make it all work. But you only have, you know, roughly eight hours a day to put into your business for the most part. And I know most of us are probably putting in more like between, if you have a side hustle, you're probably putting in 12 hours a day, but that's not the point.

The point is, is that it does, it can take the best of you. Mm-hmm. I think that's an easy way of saying it, is that your business can really take the best of you and then unfortunately, your family, your friends get what's left. And, and you know, like I've had plenty of nights from like, crap, like I am burnt out by the time five o'clock comes around yet.

That's the time that like my family needs me to be on. And, and I don't, I've, I've struggled immensely with it.

Justin LaRocque: I, I think, you know, like something that I found helpful and, you know, I'm a planner to a fault, so not, this is, this is not healthy level of planning. I want to openly acknowledge that. But so, so being an accountant, I actually have an Excel that I update every month, which kind of has my monthly budget.

1. You know, and then has like my investment calculator that, you know, has an assumed return and, and so on, so forth. And the thing I find most helpful for, for that is it actually shows me, you know, I have a number in my mind that I wanna get to, to be able to kind of say I'm, you know, retired. Right?

Sure. And it helps you kind of realize when I'll get to that number. Right. And the reason. You know, I, I kind of think about business and just life in general. Like, like you're running a marathon or something, right? If you don't know, or just running a race maybe is a better framing. If you don't know where the end is, you don't know how to pace yourself, right?

And it, I think that's something that business owners should really stop and, and think about is, wait a second, like, how big does this business need to be to get to where I want to go? Right? Mm-hmm. Because it's, it's great to say, oh, I've got a billion dollar business, you know, and, and my family does not like it.

That, that I, I think, I think almost universally, most people would not say they're striving for that. Right? That's right. So, but, but very, like, not very often do I hear an entrepreneur say, this is the level of growth, this is the end point. And as a result of that, I can now have all this flexibility in these other areas to, to kind of do what I want.

Because I, I know that if my business grows at, you know, 8% per year you know, this is where I'm gonna probably end up. And so I don't know that that's something that I've taken to framing on. And, and so like, as an example, you know, I, like, I, I actually do the work about three days a week and then two days a week I have relatively flexible, you know, so and, and that's conscious.

'cause I look at, okay, well what growth do I need to get to my endpoint? And, you know, instead of thinking of retirement as this end point, what if, what if I was able to work three days? You know, would I work another five years For sure. If I, if I could enjoy two days right now for two days later on.

Absolutely. Right. So anyways, I, I think those are, that, it's a interesting framing for, for people to think about is like, how big does this need to be to get to what I actually want? Right. And, and I think, again, as entrepreneurs, I. You know, a lot of people start the business 'cause they're like, well, you know, I want a Ferrari and a couple houses, you know, and maybe a villa.

Yeah. But, but I think push come to shove, you actually gotta stop and say like, okay, well if you want that, you are gonna have to work really, really hard. Right? Yeah. Is that really what you want?

Kelly Kennedy: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think, I think we jump in with both feet without thinking what the cost would be a lot of the time.

Right. Yeah. And I, and I've met enough entrepreneurs to know that that is, at least in the beginning, that tends to be the case. Yeah. We just jump in and we're like, all right, we got this. Yeah. But it's like, as you get further and further down the line, it's so funny 'cause I think we sell ourselves this idea and like.

I think, I think, you know, it sounds like you've got it figured out, but I think a lot of us sell ourselves the idea that we're gonna become entrepreneurs, we're gonna make more money and we're gonna work less. Yeah. And the exact opposite happens. Yeah. We typically make less money and we work more and harder than we've ever worked in our entire life, and then hope for this, like hope that long term this is gonna pay off, or we're gonna have that reward.

Right. Yeah. But it's like I've talked to so many entrepreneurs where that was the case. They quit their amazing high salary career for an entrepreneurial job where they work twice as hard and make half the money. Yeah. And it's just like that for a while. Right. And I think, I think we all end up in that trap a little bit.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I. Like any good entrepreneur, there's, there's a balance, right? You know, most people sit on the side of the pool and they're like, the water's too cold. It's not the right time. You know, could I even swim? You know, and, and so I think, again, entrepreneurs are those people that are just like, ah, how cold could it be?

And I, I'll figure it out. They jump into the water, right? Yeah. But I do think like any good swimmer, you know, you can take a couple strokes and, and, you know, really, really get exuberant. But at a certain point, the best swimmers. Have to stop and refine their technique, figure out how far they're going and what they're doing.

You know, and I, I bring this up 'cause I've just been learning to, to swim properly over the last little bit here as I get into triathlons. But but, but that would be my, my comment, right? You have to have the mix. You gotta jump in and not be afraid of how cold the water is or if you can swim and that you can do it.

But at a certain point you also have to calm down and assess like, you know, how fast do I really gotta go here? Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: How ha Like you, you are a serial entrepreneur. You've jumped into, you know, you've had a family business, you've had your own multiple businesses. And, you know, talk to me a little bit about the side hustle.

'cause I know that, you know, knowing you, you're a bit of an expert in the side hustle. W how have you been able to, you know, do ROC Advisors, for instance, and grow River City Leaders Forums at the same time and still have time for life?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great question. Yeah, I, I, I think, you know, again, I've, I've been very intentional of my time.

So what I mean by that is, you know, with, with ROC Advisors. I intentionally started ROC Advisors first before RCLF because I knew that ROC Advisors was a, a more tangible sale, right? It's, it's fractional CFO work. I'm a, I'm a charter accountant. It's, it, it fits into my skillset. I've done it before.

So really for me. Step one was getting enough money in the door that, that I felt, okay, I, I can now slow down and pace myself. Right? So going back to the analogy, I had to jump into the water and the, and I knew that the, the steadiest way to do it was, was to focus on fractional CF. Once I got to a good point then I started to say, okay, I, I think it's time for RCLF.

And so I intentionally started it just before the summer 'cause I knew I was gonna spend time with the kids. And, and so, you know, consciously, again, in the summer I said I'm gonna have RCL or I'm gonna have ROC Advisors, but not grow it. I'm gonna focus on my family. I'm gonna start telling people about RCLF, right?

And, and so I guess maybe a better way of framing this, I look at it my time by quarters and where I'll focus my efforts. So then when I came out of last summer, I said, okay, RCL F's going, but I haven't formed my first group. I've only added people, but I haven't formalized a group. I need to make that my priority.

And so actually in the latter half of last year, I really tried to focus to get my first group popped up. So that was my focus there. Then again, in the, the next quarter, I said, okay, wait a second. A lot of family stuff going, I'm gonna slow down again. I'm not gonna take on new customers here. I'm not gonna hunt down work here.

I'm gonna focus on family. Right. So, and, and so that's what I would say is, you know, I've almost you know, and I'm probably just naive, but I haven't really viewed RCLF as a side hustle. I've tried to view, you know, my, my time with friends and family or for myself. My time on ROC Advisors and my time as RCLF is kinda like three different quadrants that I wanna focus on, right?

Yeah. And so by each quarter I've kind of reemphasized where I'm trying to focus, right? So like, as an example in, in the front half of this year, one of my quarters was for RCLF to really try the cold outreach program that I talked about. The LinkedIn stuff, right? Yeah. And because what happens there is then I had to book a bunch of coffees with those people and get them on board.

Then after that I was very fortunate for ROC Advisors to keep getting referrals. So the next quarter I actually brought on another CPA to help me out. So then that quarter I really focused on, okay, I've, I've gotta get my staff trained and, and figure out how we're gonna work as a team, right? So, so that's really how I think about my time is quarterly.

What is my priority? Like, what is my objective? For anyone that's familiar with EOS, like I've run EOS many years what is my rock? Right? Like my 90 day objective. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so that's, that's how I've thought about it.

Kelly Kennedy: It's like very targeted attention to various things. Yes. Like, I guess the question for me is.

I find that so much in business is unexpected, right? Yeah. Like some of the greatest things that have happened to me in business, I didn't even see them coming. Yeah. Like obviously I put in the effort and it was going there, but like my little human brain could not put together what was going to come my way.

Right. Yeah. And I guess my question for you is, is how much of like, how much of business for you is just like an amazing surprise?

Justin LaRocque: I think a lot of it is amazing surprises, right? And I, I think this goes back to the time management concept. This is why I try to build Slack into my schedule, right? I, I'll actually give you a perfect example.

So yesterday I was with one of our clients and we had this all day EOS session and right, be right to, we did it off site. And so the one owner got access to another space from this, this other owner. And so, you know, we have the session, it's great, and we go out for supper last night, and the owner that I work with is like, oh, hey, by the way really enjoyed the session today.

And that owner that let us in they're actually looking for fractional CFO work. So I, I gave them. You know, can you meet up with this guy? Okay, so this is last night. Okay? Like six o'clock. So I, I leave and I have this business card and I text the individual. And literally today, now, you know, less than 12 hours later they text me back at nine 20, you know, 9 29 right before we hop on and they're like, Hey, you know, can you re grabb a coffee?

And I'm like, yeah, sure. Let's grab it. Right? You know, so I'm gonna go for a coffee here in an hour and a half, and maybe it'll turn into something, maybe it won't, right? But if you don't have the slack. To take on the unexpected. Yes. This is, this is where you can't capitalize very fast, right? Yeah. So as an example, if I was fully booked for the rest of the day and I'm going on vacation next week, now I say to 'em, oh, you know, I can't really meet for two weeks.

Right? Yeah. And now they don't respond to you in two weeks. Yeah. And before you know it, you've lost the lead. Yeah. So that's why, you know, I'm very intentional about building Slack because to go to your original question. Unexpected things happen all the time. You know, it's, it, you know, I think my biggest realization with business, I've always thought I'm a, you know, I, for better or worse, and it's probably worse, I'm a linear thinker.

You know, I've always thought, oh yeah, an investment. It just kind of does this or business just does this. Yeah, it doesn't though, right? It does this and then this, and you know, it peaks and valleys, right? And, and you have to be ready for those opportunities.

Kelly Kennedy: Totally, totally. And speaking to our entrepreneurs out there, if you're having like the worst month in your business right now, understand it can be followed by the best month you've ever had.

Like it, a business can really be that way. You know, it can really be like, I feel like when I'm in like the worst moments where I'm feeling like, oh my gosh, like what did I do? How did I end up in this place? It's almost always followed by one of the most amazing experiences from like, where did this come from?

This is amazing. You know, like it's, you're right, it's an emotional rollercoaster, which is why I think a river city leaders forum could be very beneficial to a lot of people because when you're in that p, when you're in that valley, the valley can seem really, really dark. But what you're not seeing is that next month you could be standing on top of a mountain and sometimes you need that.

You need that emotional support from people who've been there to be able to say that to you.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, ab absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I, I think it's I don't know if it's originally from him or not, but I associated with Jeff Bezos, but he talks about business is like baseball. So in, in baseball he's like, the difference between baseball and business is, you know, you go to bat and you take these swings and he's like, in baseball you can only ever get a home run, right?

Or, or get a grand slam, you know, you get four of the guys in. But he's like, in business you can get like a million X run. Right? And the reason I bring that up is it's time at that, right? You just gotta sit at the bat and keep swinging, right? Yeah. And so when you're in the lows, just being in the game is the important part.

Yes, and, and even if you're missing the pitches, just being there to catch the next one is, is so critical.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And I think that that's why so many podcasts fail, right? Because podcasts are like anything. They have great months and they have bad months, and nothing ever seems to make sense. But if you look at the ones who've made it long-term, that's it.

They made shows even when they weren't doing good. Mm-hmm. And eventually it caught fire and up it goes. And you know, we experienced that at the BDP where it was like for a long time. We had nothing, and then it took off, and then it went down, and then it had nothing, and then it took off, and then it comes down.

It's like the secret is just to show up. If you can show up, whether it be to record your weekly podcast, whether it be to just stay in business another month. I think you'll find eventually that, that that rocket's coming for you.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, and I think it's, you know, the, the age old adage of, you know, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life.

I, I think that's where that comes to bear too, right, is, you know, if you do what you love for business, even on the low days, you can still wake up and be like, okay, like. I enjoy this though, like this is still, you know, maybe it's not economically working out right now, but, but I do enjoy it. Right. And so That's right.

Kelly Kennedy: A hundred percent. You gotta love it. Well dude, lead us into ROC Advisors. We talked a lot about River City, but talk about ROC Advisors.

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, so, so ROC Advisors. So yeah, that was the first business we started fractional CFO shop. And, you know, just like you've said, the, the highs and the lows, right?

So we, I started off and I had this idea of hiring teams and we're gonna work for a million people. It was gonna be great. And then kinda, I think around the time we connected, I, I had early success, got good clients and I was like, you know what? I just need to relax. I just wanna work by myself. I wanna focus on my family.

I want to have flexibility. And so I actually, I, I kind of terminated the plans that I had. You know, I, I ended up parting ways with one of the clients. I, I reconsolidated my time focused on the kids over the summer. But unfortunately, you know, the, the bad thing about a, an entrepreneur is like.

They just can't avoid who they really are. And so I've been very fortunate with ROC Advisors. And so what happened was I, I kept getting referrals and eventually I got to a spot, like I say, I wanted to keep intentional Slack. I got to a spot where I'm like, Hey, I can't really take on like a full workload anymore, right?

I, I can help out with these clients, but I, I can't actually do the full work. And so in, in early 2024. I made the decision actually to start bringing you on staff again. So about a year from when I started it, I, I said, I, you know, forget it all, and and now I'm right back where I started. So yeah, you know, that, that, that's me more than anything where I just, I move too quick sometimes for my own good, but but yeah, so we've, we've started to grow the staff and fractional CFO, you know, it, it's a huge thing.

It's, it's a big buzzword right now. I think a lot of people are hearing it. You know, and it, it's a huge resource, right? I think what's happened is. Traditional model, you know, you grow to a certain size and then you gotta bring on a controller, and that's gonna be a hundred k plus. And as you know, a growing business, you're like, wow.

Where, you know, where am I gonna find that money? How am I gonna get the value back? And so in the simplest thing, and you know, we talked about it on, on episode 12 as well, but you know, simplest construct for for fractional CFO is. You get a fraction of their time. Right. And, and for most smaller businesses you know, and even larger ones, honestly, right there, there's fractional CFOs even at Nate there's, there's fractional CFOs, you know, at, at post-secondary institutions these days.

So but you just get a lot of value, you know, a lot of bang for your buck. And so, yeah. So we've been doing the fractional CFO thing. And then again, I can't really help myself. A and so now where we've started to go is I've really found that the area I really enjoy is a helping with the finance side.

But I, I tend to work with, with smaller businesses kinda like zero to 20 million is, is roughly what we target. And so I tend to mostly enjoy working with the owners. You know, or, or the general manager of those, of those business and really talking about, hey, like what are we doing with the team and how are we running the business better?

And so now where we're, we're going is really starting to focus on EOS, so the entrepreneurial operating system. So I ran that for a number of years when I was a CEO of the last business. And so with all of our clients, we've naturally just baked it into our offering. I, I pop it up for all of them.

But now we'll start offering that maybe as a standalone thing. And then the other area and I gave a shout out to him last time Mike Mack with X five Management, so I'll give him another shout out. Mike Mack, X five management. He's, he's amazing. You know what? He, he helped coach me and he introduced me to disc which, which is kind of like a personality assessment for, for those not familiar.

And so actually I've, I've started to get into that space as well. So, so just recently I got DISC certified and we'll get five behaviors certified. So, so yeah, so that's ROC Advisors. So there, there's three of us in the company now. We're hopeful to get to probably four by the end of this year or maybe the next or, or early next.

But yeah, re really just enjoying life, you know, not, not trying to run too fast, like I said, so.

Kelly Kennedy: That's amazing. Yeah. I love Mike, by the way. Yeah, he, he's amazing. Yeah. I, it's funny because the first time you came on, I didn't even know who he was, and now I've actually interviewed him on the show. I read Lunch with Leaders.

Yeah, I imagine you will be on the next Lunch with Leaders. He, he's an amazing person. Actually, if you haven't listened to that episode, you should definitely go back and listen to Mike Max as well. It's a, it's a great episode. Absolutely. Well. Justin, that takes us to the end today. If people wanna get ahold of you and they want either ROC Advisors or they want to potentially apply for River City leaders, how do they do that?

Justin LaRocque: Yeah, for sure. So, so if they wanna get ahold of me you know, I've got separate emails for the two businesses but both of 'em have the same starting, which is Justin.L@rocadvisors. Ca. or@rcl.ca. And so for River City leaders you know, you can go to www.rcl.ca and you can actually in book time with me on there via Calendly.

So we can get you kind of right into the process. And then also we're on LinkedIn, you know, so, so LinkedIn's the other spot. So again, RCL F and ROC Advisors are, are there as well. So.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. And I'll make sure that all of the links are on the post for the show. So if you're finding it, come check out LinkedIn.

It'll be there. Justin, it's been an honor. Thank you again, thank you for everything you've done. Thank you for being our third guest and you know, now our 226th episode. Yeah, it's it's crazy but it's awesome and it's really good to see you and I really appreciate you, dude.

Justin LaRocque: Awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate being on the show.

And yeah, wish you continued success. You've done amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: Thank you. Until next time. This has been episode 226 of the Business Development Podcast, and we will catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in. Sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is. Brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.