Exceptional Success, Crushing Pain & Back Again with Colin Christensen

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 16 of the Business Development Podcast. On today's episode, we start the first part of a two-part series with Colin Christensen, one of the most amazing serial entrepreneurs that I've had the pleasure to meet with and interview with. He has such an inspirational story. He is full of so much knowledge for us young entrepreneurs.

I truly hope that you enjoy this story as much as I have, and make sure that you stay tuned next week for one of the most amazing entrepreneurial recovery stories you may have ever heard. Stay tuned.

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more. This is the Business Development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business, brought to you by Capital Business Development Capitalbd.ca let's do it. Welcome to the The Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host Kelly Kennedy.

Hello. Welcome back to the Business Development Podcast. This is episode 16 and today I'm really, really excited. I have an amazing guest today, one that honestly took my breath away a little bit. Colin, you are, you are next level. And I think I talked in a previous episode about when I got some nerves when I met someone.

Guys. It's Colin Christensen, that's, that's the guy that I got nerves for and we have him on the show today and he's got not just one amazing story, but I think this is actually gonna be a two-part. And I'm so excited, so excited to introduce him. Colin Christensen is a massive advocate for early stage entrepreneurship.

He spent 30 years starting funding growing businesses of his own. His current chapter is helping entrepreneurs around the world avoid needless failure among other endeavors. One of his favorites is a platform that he co-founded alongside a world renowned benevolent corporation, helping entrepreneurs create equity for themselves with training and crowdfunding and zero interest micro loans through Covid this has expanded into 10 countries. Four languages and continues to open economic alternatives from high risk options here at home Colin served as an entrepreneur in residence at Grant McEwen, or I guess it's McEwen University now, and in various roles with the innovation ecosystem. He is a published author and developer of an app for entrepreneurs and continues to be involved in growing indigenous entrepreneurship through curriculum design and advocacy for all underestimated founders.

Colin serves as the chair of the Board of Action for Healthy Communities and as the GM of a hockey team where he plays with his sons. Of all his passions, the greatest is being married to his best friend, also a business owner, and having three young adults who still think he's pretty. All right. Well, Colin, you are pretty all right. How are you today?

Colin Christensen: I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me, Kelly. It's great to be here.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, man, it is. I can't even tell you. I, I am so thrilled to have you here today. I, I think you can bring so much value and just your experience alone, I'm gonna let you speak to it, but man, it's, it's unbelievable. Colin, can you tell my listeners a little bit about, about yourself?

Colin Christensen: Sure. I mean, you did a great job covering it all and it's, you know, it's funny when you have to write your own thing and then have somebody else read it. It's, it's a little I listened to it and go, yeah, that's cool. Absolutely, and I wanna meet that guy.

But yeah, I mean, I, it started for me a long time ago. I mean, I, you know. Great family grew up in Ontario. But I spent well at about 10, I think I started my first businesses and that was, you know, working mowing a graveyard lawn and then into all the acreages around my neighborhood and stuff like that.

You know, just driving my lawnmower tractor around the neighborhood and making a few bucks here and there. Then I got into painting jackets in high school. You know, I was a metalhead and still am, and loved doing that. And so I painted a bunch of jackets and a bunch of artwork and then people would hire me to do different things there.

And then slowly evolved into some more illicit businesses, we'll say, and then eventually into a lot more mainstream stuff and just having a passion for art and business and people. I mean, I've kind of wanted to be an entrepreneur pretty much all my life. Probably more just that state of rebellion that I like, you know, as being contrary to the, to the rest of the world.

So that was where I think a lot of that started. And over the years that even the graphic design business, the painting jackets turned into digital media, turned into like, well, a graphic design company and then digital media into creating, helping grow some games back in the nineties. And then we turned that into a recruiting opportunity and then a recruiting company.

And then more digital media, building an app and helping entrepreneurs and, you know, coaching entrepreneurs and just kind of evolving over the last 40 years into what it is today. And it's, you know, every time I would update my business model, if you will, to serve the purpose that we needed it to at the time.

Right. Whether it was just, you know, providing a, a little bit of food on the table or just really understanding what we needed to do to help entrepreneurs and help different organizations that we're working with.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. And, and like, obviously I would say like, where to start? Like if you, if you guys look at Colin Christensens LinkedIn, you're gonna see that you've been a part of like 20 different founding businesses pretty well.

Like, it's, it's unbelievable. You know, I mean, I see serial entrepreneurs and, you know, serial, like most serial entrepreneurs that I've run into, you know, they got five, six businesses. I've never seen one like you.

Colin Christensen: Yeah, well, I mean, consider that those, you know, come and go. Sometimes good, sometimes very bad, you know, and everything in between. Right. And so I'm a, I'm a consummate entrepreneur. I mean, I look for opportunities. I find things that are really cool and, you know, and, and, and go off on following that rabbit hole for a little while.

There's a couple of really interesting things about it. One is I pay a lot of attention to my wife. And so my wife has what I would consider a, a very, a very attuned security gland, right? And so that little gland that says, eh, this is probably not a great idea. And, and other ones that go, this is fantastic, we should really run with this.

And so she's been an amazing part of my life and part of my guidance. She's the administration, she's the bookkeeper, she's a professional bookkeeper for a number of different companies. Small small businesses that just need a little bit of work here and there. And I'm her worst client cuz I have, you know, I think five different businesses on the go and don't ever do my stuff the way I should.

And, you know, she'd much rather work with everybody else other than me, but. So those businesses, even though they're interesting and come and go and do all those kind of things, it's just really following the special purpose vehicles that need to be served at the time the customer needs that need to be served.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, I totally feel for you cuz like I totally get that aspect like with me, you know, my sister has always kind of had my back with regards to kind of motivating me and, and I wouldn't be where I'm sitting today without my sister. So I'm just gonna say a big shout out to my sister Tina Kennedy.

She's the owner of Bloom Bookkeeping. And a hundred percent push me, push me to go to college. Pushed me to kind of take action in my life. Cuz frankly, like you said, I was probably a young guy getting into trouble ins instead of applying myself to my life as I should have been. And got the kick in my butt that I needed from her.

And to this day I will always be eternally grateful. So you don't mean with me too, my fiance. She has always motivating, always got my back, always letting me know that things are going great. And I think with her though, with, with my fiance, when I started Capital, there was a lot of like, what are you doing?

Are you sure that this is a good idea because you know you have a good job, like it pays well? And I'm like, yeah, but like, You know, I mean, like at the time it was Covid Colin, so like, who knew what was coming around the corner? I'd been there for almost a decade at that point. It was like, not little over nine years.

And like, I'd already had the idea for capital in my mind, but it was just taking that step. I needed that kind of kick in the butt. And my boss kind of came along one day and said, Kelly, you know what? I don't know what next year looks like with Covid. It's looking pretty crazy. Like, I don't know if we're gonna be needed or not.

You should probably have a backup plan. And I was like, okay. Got a backup plan. And next thing you know, I ended up, I ended up taking a layoff, which luckily also came with with some money and took that money, dumped it into capital, founded capital. And you know, the rest is history. Here we are.

But yeah, it's like you almost need somebody to kind of give you that little kick in the butt, you know, whether it's your wife, whether it's life. But I feel like most entrepreneurs, it's like taking that initial leap. It can be incredibly scary and you don't, you need a catalyst of some type.

Colin Christensen: I agree. I mean, it's, it's, I mean for me it's this, Well, I mean, I think at first it was probably a drive for, you know, I want the Lamborghini, I want the, the big life, I want the, you know, my own boss, kinda my mentality.

And anybody who's been an entrepreneur for a while knows that probably none of those three are real. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna say that completely. You know, certainly you can make great money and you can get set up properly and all that kind of stuff. And I love, I mean, I have a life a dream life as far as I'm concerned.

I, you know, do what I wanna do and run around and spend most of my time just working with entrepreneurs, which is awesome. Like, I couldn't trade it in for anything better. But it's not, it, it's about, I think part of it is this burning desire to see something different in the world. Right? There's a, a different outcome.

I, I believe that everybody should have some kind of a side hustle, you know? And, and the problem is, well, there's a an author called Jon Acuff, and he wrote a book called Quitter, and I really enjoy the book. He talks about this idea that, you know, building entrepreneurship is a lot like building a boat.

Unfortunately, most entrepreneurs will jump in the water and start building a boat in the water and then wonder why it doesn't float right and doesn't support them. Whereas he suggests that we should stay on dry ground at a job, a comfortable work life balance, if you want to call it that. And off the side of her desk have a dock that goes out to a boat.

You spend your time planning and thinking and reasoning and, and investing time and energy into that boat to make it work. Is it gonna float one person? Is it gonna float your whole family? Is it gonna float, you know, the whole country, you know, the, those are all questions to be considered on what that boat's gonna look like.

But you plan and you execute on that boat, but you don't jump in the boat until it can sustain you. Yeah. Right. And that's where I've made a lot of mistakes over the years. But then once you start understanding that if you can create something off the side of your desk that one day may support you, kudos to you.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Like I've always looked at business and, you know what I mean? Like obviously my experience in starting business is completely different than yours. I, I have a service-based business where we, we support existing businesses, but the way that I looked at it when I started Capital Colin was if if I can't make enough money at this right off the bat, like if it's not profitable right off the bat, it doesn't make sense for me. And so I just made sure that everything that I put in together before I kind of launched off into doing capital was that it was going to be enough to sustain me. And thank God that that was a model that worked. And I had some, I had some mentors that kind of gave me some advice and tips because, you know, I mean, it's one thing to be a really, really great business development person, which is what I was.

But it's a completely different thing to like, now, now I gotta be that, but then start and establish a company and then market that company. And then obviously one of the things that I found incredibly hard, and I I kind of pitched this, is that it's very hard to market your own business, right? Like, I feel like you're almost too close to it.

And so what I've kind of learned is that it's almost better as an entrepreneur to have somebody else market your business for you, because it's like, it's, it, it hurts less, the rejection hurts less, you know?

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Well, it's true. And this is you know, there's the, a thing we talk about a lot in the ecosystem when we're talking about entrepreneurship is that ugly baby syndrome.

Right. It's, you know, nobody wants to admit that their baby's ugly, right? And so we overprotect it, right? We try to say how great it is and all that kind of stuff. Whereas I think this, this concept, two of the most important attributes to me for entrepreneurship are humility and curiosity, right? When we ask a lot of questions and we really seek to understand rather than, you know, assume that we've got all the answers, which unfortunately I see too far, far too often in entrepreneurs.

But, you know, when we actually go, so what do you think we need? What do, what are you looking for? What would make your life better? How do we solve your problem? Right? And, but really get into the nuance of it. And don't just stop at a Yeah, yeah, yeah. Confirmation bias. I heard exactly what you want, I wanted to hear.

Mm-hmm. So now I'm gonna run off and build something that nobody wants. We have to spend the time and energy to really understand where the problem or where this the issues are coming from. Once we do, then we go, oh, okay, now we can help. So, Marketing your own stuff always difficult. Yeah. But you know, being able to have something and understand the reasons behind it, I think is a great start.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other side of it is you almost have to have that, you have to know that you know what you know, and you don't know what you don't know. And you kind of have to, like you said, you have to be curious and open to realizing that like the way that, you know, it isn't the only way.

There's other ways to kind of skin the cat, if that makes sense. And it's like, it's easy to get locked into kind of one way and one way that works. But it's like, one of the things that I think has helped me with capital is that I've really just, I've met enough people, I've learned enough where I realize that there's multiple ways to do things and you shouldn't be completely closed off to other, other options or other alternatives or changing technologies or who knows what.

Because the reality is, is that if you aren't changing a little bit over time, you are gonna get left behind. So you, you need to have an open mind. You need to be open to new ways to do things.

Colin Christensen: Well further to that, I mean, being myopic is a problem anyway, right? Like if, if our only view is what we know, then we are selling ourselves short on what is possible.

Hmm. Right? Like, let's, let's look around the world. I mean, it's a, it's a vast place with a lot of different ideas and, and it cruises along and does great things. And we continue to, you know, thrive off this planet, you know, for whatever, you know, people wanna argue on, on, on environment and whatnot. Yeah.

Not taking a position on that, but I remember years ago I'm a, a Christian Guy and I, I have a lot of a lot of involvement in the, in the church, and I was leading a bunch of, you know, marrieds. My wife and I were leading a married organiza group. And we had, I remember when we first kind of got set up and we were first getting going, you know, I'd walk in a young guy, this is 30 years ago, you know, kind of thing, and, or 20, 20 some odd years ago.

And I'd come in and I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. Let's go, you know, and, and wonder why nobody is doing anything and why they're not engaging. And, and I remember the, the time I walked into the, to the room with them and, and I sat down with all the guys and I just said, you know, what, what do you guys think?

Right? And I, what do you guys think we should do? And how do you think it should go? And I just asked their opinion and left it completely open. What I found was everybody came up with better ideas for the same ideas as. But then when we all kind of talked it out and worked it through, everybody in a room kind of agreed on one thing and then started driving with it, I didn't have to do a thing.

Right. They were all intrinsically motivated, all excited, and all owned it because I didn't tell them what to do. They got excited about it. And I think it's the same with customers, you know, we spend so much time telling them what we think they need. Everybody buys into the two quotes that we've overheard and probably misquoted, which is, you know Henry Ford, if I asked him what they wanted, they'd ask for a faster horse.

Mm-hmm. Total bs. And then the other one being, you know, well look at Steve Jobs. He didn't tell anybody what, he just didn't come, came up with the iPhone. No, it didn't work that way, you know, and so neither of those are true. And, and so we set our sights on, that's the way it needs to be. I'm gonna go tell the market what it needs, and that's the absolute opposite of what is actually needed.

Kelly Kennedy: So I want to kind of touch back on that too, because it, it sounds, obviously what you're kind of talking about here, it sounds this way, is that you're saying that we should be always asking our client, what is it that you want from this service at the end of the day, instead of just coming down and saying like, these are our services.

I feel like we can still do that, but how do we incorporate, these are our services, but also what is it that you need are like, how do we incorporate that into our day-to-day business?

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think there's the, to your point, you've got a service business. I have a service business, I also have a product business and things like that, right?

And so, but it's, it's still, you know, Peter Drucker, kind of the grandfather of business said, you know, a business doesn't exist if it doesn't have a. Right. And otherwise it's a hobby is the way I look at it, right? So you can have any hobby you want and spend all your time and money doing it if that's what you wanna do.

But if you want a, a real business that's gonna create returns and create some revenue, then you have to have a customer, somebody who's willing to pay for what you've got. Mm-hmm. And the only way to do that is you may come up with this ingenious new thing that nobody's ever heard of and, and ultimately is a great way of doing things.

More than likely though, it's gonna be solving a problem that's somebody's having, dealing with a certain thing that they need to shift to something else, like a marketing company or, you know, whatever it might be, they're gonna shift to something better. Right. And so this concept of jobs to be done which is put out by Peter well Clayton Christensen and Bob Moesta are my two kind of favorite guys on that subject.

But what's the job to be done? You know, I bought the shirt to do a reason I bought that really cool Chiefs jersey cuz I love the chiefs from mm-hmm. You know, slapshot shot in the seventies. You know, I'm a hockey player. I bought that album Gojira cuz I'm a metal fan and it's great, but I hire these things to do a job for me.

If they don't do the job, I'm gonna fire them and move on. Right. And so understanding what that job is and what we think the job is is one thing, but let's go form it. And shape it and nuance it with the voice of your customers. Mm-hmm. Because what you think is the problem is a great identification of the problem, but it's not clarity of the problem.

And so where does it come from? Why does it happen? Mm-hmm. In your opinion, maybe useful, but it's not the only one. Too often the entrepreneurs are building something for themselves and they're not building something that actually other people are having that same problem. Mm-hmm. And they're building it for them too.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, no, that, that actually makes a lot of sense. Colin. I wanna take it back a little bit because I think that that was such a profound thing to say it to me. I'll be honest. At first, before you said customer, I thought you were gonna talk about your employees. Hmm. Does this also translate to your employees?

Colin Christensen: A hundred percent. Actually, I, I, I, somebody said, I coined this phrase, I don't think I did, but employee marketing, right? Because your customer. Well, just like your employee and your investor and your vendors. Yeah. Right. All of these people have an option whether they wanna work with you or not. Absolutely.

And so are you proposing your relationship based on something that's gonna be beneficial to them or is it just something that you want? Right. We too often, I mean, you know, especially now with the onset of some of the millennial ideas and things like that, and, and, and I get on folks all the time saying, oh, those millennials, they're so, you know, whatever.

And I'm like, you wouldn't take that job. Shut up. Right? Yeah. Like, it's not the millennial that's a problem. It's your stupid job that you're offering them with no consideration for them as human beings. So don't think it's a millennial problem, it's a human problem and you're experiencing it just the same.

So yes, every employee, I encourage most people to look at their employees as volunteers, right? Yeah. They're, you're paying them and, but they're not a, a paycheck is not a retention strategy. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, just because you pay them doesn't mean they're gonna stay working with you. What's the guy?

Gravity, gravity payment out of Seattle? Right. He, he's got a, he's very vocal guy on Twitter. What's his name? Dan something rather. Anyways, I love him. Right. And he challenges, he, so he's the guy that famously took his million dollar salary, cut it to, you know, a reasonable salary, about a hundred and something, 150, 180, 200,000, whatever it is. It's still pretty reasonable for a CEO . Yeah and he made sure that every employee in his company made at least $70,000 a living wage. And to date, that was an experiment that he started in 2018 or something. Every job that he has has 300 plus. You what do you call applicants? Mm-hmm.

He's never, he is got a brilliant retention strategy. Everybody stays with them, but cuz he treats everybody like humans, he looks after people, he makes sure that they're happy. Yeah. But what's even more surprising, you know, good testament to that is his employees bought him a Tesla. Oh wow. Okay. So, you know how many bosses buy their employees a gold watch or something.

Yeah. You know, encouraging for them, but how often do employees buy their boss? Something as a show of gratitude.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No kidding. No kidding. That's amazing.

Colin Christensen: So, yes, a hundred percent. Just answer your question For sure. Yeah. You know, you have to look at holding and retaining and, and building something that people want, both from vision, mission, values, goals, the idea of exciting and, and creating an intrinsic pull for your employees.

But you gotta do the same for your customers as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Yeah, no, I, I, the reason I wanted to kind of touch on the employee side is I dunno, we, I guess we kind of talked about this, but I've, I've recently started expanding capital, so I'm, I'm starting to hire people. I recently hired Cole. He is, been with me just about a month now, and it's been awesome.

And, you know, I mean, I, I look at it as I definitely want to make my business a great place to work. You know, I mean, that was always a goal from point go is that I recognize that as a, as a long-term person who worked in a business. The thing, the reason that I stayed there was that I really enjoyed working there.

I enjoyed my boss. My boss gave me a lot of freedom. He gave me a lot of trust. He gave me a lot of respect, allowed me to kind of do it my way. And I, I definitely want to try to do that with my employees. You know, I mean, you've been doing this a long time. You've, I'm sure over your time you've had hundreds if not thousands of employees.

Colin, what kind of tips can you give me as a, as a, essentially, not a new business, but a new business when it comes down to I'm hiring, I'm growing, I'm expanding. What do we do? How do we retain these employees? How do we show, how do we, you know, I mean, obviously I, I try to treat them as best as I can, but like, w what would be some tips that you could provide me to just help me be more effective at that?

To, to truly create a place where employees feel valued and, and trusted?

Colin Christensen: I think it's, it's a great question and it's a great ambition. There's a few things that I usually suggest. I mean, I have a free ebook on that, and it's in my regular book too. But the big thing is like, treat 'em as humans.

Right? That's the first thing that I would say is what do you want? What do you looking for? What do you like, you know, what is important to you? Well treat others the same way. It's just empathy. Mm-hmm. Right? And so, but the fir what I would say is, as the business owner, first I say y you really want to know what your ROI is.

You are the first investor in your business. Yeah. What is your

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Colin Christensen: time worth? What are you trying to get out of it? You know, do you want a job or do you want extra money? Do you want, you know, a future, do you want a certain lifestyle? Whatever it is. I mean, make sure that your business is gonna give you that.

Yeah. Look at it objectively. Step outside of your day-to-day. You know, you talked about even, you know, hearing marketing and, and owning that and stuff like that. Can you pull out of it and look at it from an objective perspective to say, I like this about my business. This is where I want it to go. It's a vehicle, I'm a driver and I'm gonna own this vehicle and try to drive it to where it wants to go.

And if it's not gonna get across the terrain that I want, I need to get rid of that vehicle and start a new vehicle. Right. And I'm guilty of that a hundred times over. So I was gonna say, so the first thing is you need to know what you want out of it, and then therefore you should create, you know, in the grand perspective of things, a, a vision.

What do you wanna be when you grow up? A mission? Who do you serve and how do you serve them? Set of values, how do you behave? What do you believe in? What won't you stand for? That's very important, important one when it comes to employees. And then finally, goals. What's important right now? Where do you wanna go?

Like, these are Patrick Lencioni type ideas. They're blended with a number of other things, but if you can figure out vision, mission, value's, goals as a kind of a, a backbone to the organization, then you can hire and, and recruit based on that, right? Mm-hmm. You have to be clear on them, and you have to have them simple, and they have to be portable, and they have to be just like marketing.

You can't sit there and give a twenty sentence pitch and expect anybody to even care about what you're doing. Same with an employee. If you don't explain things in a succinct and and meaningful fashion for them, and like a magnet, it should attract the right people and repel the wrong people. So that's kind of where I'd start.

I've got a lot more that I can go into, but I'll turn it back to you for at least some words before I get ranting and raving for a while.

Kelly Kennedy: No, no, it's great. It's great information Colin. This is very valuable to a lot of people. Cause I know I'm not the only one with these questions. I know I'm not the only one who's just, just kind of getting started in that growth phase of business where, you know, I mean, like you said, this guy's the limit, but the reality is, is that I feel like what I want from capital will also change over time right. Course. Like I feel like right now I'm not ready to, I'm not ready to quit doing the job. I love business development. I say this all the time, it says this on my podcast. I, I live for this. I truly have a passion for the work I do, and, and it's, it's truly what God put me on this earth to do. There's no question.

And I'm not ready to stop doing it, but I do at some point obviously want to do it a little bit less and maybe have a little more time to manage my teams, to focus on the growth of Capital to kind of, oh yeah, what I, what I really want from it long term, to be honest with you, I don't, I don't have an answer to that yet.

I just don't know yet. I know, right? I feel like maybe it's because I'm too close to it or because I'm directly doing the work at the moment, but I think like what I want, I know for a fact that I want to have a small team that I work with right now, that we do it locally and start to expand across Canada, but ultimately, Right now, I don't know, I don't know where the stop button is for me.

I don't know what, what would be enough. And I think, you know, that's, that's something that honestly, my fiance asked me. She sat down and she said, well, what, what's enough? Like, what's the point at which you would be content? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know if I can answer that. I don't know if I have the answer.

Colin Christensen: Well, I'll, I'll, I'll, I mean, I'll give you a couple of thoughts on that. And, and there's no right or wrong answer because we're in fluid motion as we are as humans, right. I mean, both the environment and the social environment and the fabric that we live in and the day-to-day changes and, and stuff. It's too, it's too nebulous to try to nail down.

Exactly. And everything's gonna go according to plan cuz we know it doesn't work that way as we'll talk about later. But the idea of, I think that anybody a, a 10 year old or 18 year old, especially, Can probably go, you know what I, this is what I'd like my life to look like. Mm-hmm. And so it's not about your business.

The business is the second part of it, but the first thing is where the driver needs to end up. So you're, you've got a fiance, you know, maybe you'll have kids or want kids one day and maybe you wanna live, what kind of a lifestyle do you wanna live? Do you want to live one in a nice house or do you care just to live downtown in an apartment?

Mm-hmm. Those are all great options. You wanna have one car? Do you wanna have six? Do you wanna travel? Do you wanna not travel? Do you, you know, these are questions that you consider when you try to put together your life story. We, we, We all have it, whether we actually take the time to sit down and write it out and, and try to, you know, describe it in some fashion.

Do we want a cat? Do we want six cats? Yeah. Do we want, you know, we're not, hate cats. Let's get a dog. You know, no cats, they're stupid. Whatever it is, you know you know, I wanna live on a farm. I wanna live in the city. There's a thousand ways to look at that world. But once we start limiting it down to kind of a perspective that we wanna have, then it actually starts to dictate what kind of a vehicle we need to get there.

Yeah. Right. And now you can start taking that vehicle and start to go, okay, well, do we need a four by four? Do we need a Formula one car? Because they're, they're different options, right. And they come with different sets of restraints. And so, you know, right now you're building something. Partly, I mean a lot of people start business out of their own talent set, right?

Like I started a business in lawn mowing. I guess that wasn't much of a talent set. Anybody could do that. Well, no. You knew how to do it. My son lawn, he sucks at it. Actually, my, one of my sons is colorblind. Okay. And red green. And so what would be funny is he'd do the lawn, but he couldn't tell that he left strips.

Yeah. Cause it all looks the same, roughly. It was hilarious. Can't get my son to mow the lawn. That's so, But my, my point is like I started, you know, I love art. I used to draw, I was fascinated with graphic design, so it made sense that I would become a graphic designer similar to you doing business development.

But the idea is now, okay, so is this what we wanna do? Are you doing it just at a convenience or you could do that all day long and buy yourself a job as a lot of people do. Or you could turn it into something, you could turn into 20 employees with a, a fancy front desk and a, you know, a mahogany office with, you know, smells of rich leather and mahogany and you know, and we can do all that kind of stuff.

But that's up to you what you want to look like. And that's part of questions to be asking.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, for sure. Do you think that this is a question that you would ask at the beginning? Like, the reason that I'm saying this is because I feel like you don't necessarily know what you got until you got it. Do you know what I mean?

Like I had no idea if capital business development was, was gonna be successful and the next thing you know, it was incredibly successful, which was awesome. But then it's like, okay, well now I have this great thing and it's going really well and my clients are happy and we can expand. But like, I don't know, I just haven't decided yet how far I want to go with it.

Colin Christensen: And that's fine. I mean, I think that's the brilliant piece about it. The fact that you've had some early success and that things are going well. Awesome man. Hallelujah. Let's celebrate that. Yeah. Like enjoy it. Yeah. Now, but do consider, I think one of the problems that I have, or where this shows up as a problem is when people start to their incon or their congruency gets challenged, right?

Congruency is a massive value for me. Right? Who I am is what you see, right? Mm-hmm. I don't, I'm not a. Mysterious guy, right? And some people are, and that's up to them. They can be that kind of way. But what you see is what you get with me. And, and so I talk off the cuff and I'm, you know, I'm happily a metalhead and you know, a religious guy and you know, all this kind of weird stuff.

And those are dichotomous, you know, in themselves, right? Like you do listen to what, and you're a Christian, like are you allowed to? I'm like, yeah, fair. I'm singing along and skip the fbombs you know, don't sing that part right.

But my point is, when we start becoming not true to ourselves, we are. Splitting ourselves. You know, let's go to, you know what's his name? Harry Potter. You know, he, he started splitting himself across all these things and it wrecked him. And I think that as an entrepreneur, if we are not staying true to ourselves, so although you have had success, although you are moving forward, although you're kind of going in a direction and you don't know where you want to go, I, outside of your business, I think you do know where you wanna go.

Yes, sure. Right? But now it's a matter of, you know, once this starts to diverge, now you're, now you have a problem. Yeah. But until then, enjoy it. Like love every minute of it, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Like right now it feels like, it feels like it lines up, right? Like my, this, this system that I'm kind of working with right now lines up with my life, aside from the fact that I'm like crazy.

So we didn't, I don't know if we really got into this, but I have three stepsons too. So it, it's a wild household that we have here at the Kennedy household. I remember you telling me that now. Yeah. And yeah, so, and three large dogs, which I love to death and hate at the same time.

Colin Christensen: I had 15 huskies, so I know what you mean.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. This, this household most of the time is, is absolutely nuts. They're being amazing right now. They're being so quiet. I love them. I love them all the dogs, the kids, everything. Yeah. But in this room, yeah, it, it's, right now it's really good. Colin. Like, my life is great. I would say my biggest challenge right now is that I've never been busier in my entire life.

I had no idea when I started the podcast how challenging it would be in my mind. It was, I'll tell you, I, I will tell the story of the podcast one day. I think one day I'll just come on here and, and give a story of the podcast so people know where it came from. But just like a rundown, I was literally looking for a new microphone.

And then the podcast just kind of came along when I started doing that research to figure out what it took to get a new microphone. Cuz I knew I was gonna be doing a lot of meetings this year. And then I listened to a lot of podcasts and then just kind of like one thing led to another, and next thing you know, I was like, Hey, you know what?

I think I might, I might just try and do a podcast. Why not? But it's definitely not my background. But anyways, it wa it was, it was a whim. I literally started this podcast on a whim, right? Thinking it would just be, oh, no problem. And it has become its own monster, which is awesome because it's been well, well received.

People like it. We got great reviews, we got lots of people reaching out week after week saying we're helping them. And that's, that's great. It really drives me to keep coming back to do this over and over and over again. But my God, like, you know, understand, I have a full-time life outside of this podcast.

And so, man, between the both, like it's been, it's been like 15 hour days, feels like every, every Monday to Friday since I started this podcast back in February.

Colin Christensen: You know what's really interesting, like my bet is like, okay, from, from as I'm listening to, I'm kind of, you know, discovering or rediscovering some of my own passions and drive on things.

When I sat down, I think it was 2005 or somewhere in air, I remember flying to LA for a, an event, and on the way down I just started start thinking about what I wanna do with my life. I think I was, yeah, 2006 I was coming up on 40 years old or whatever, and I'm starting to think about, you know, what do I wanna do with my life?

What do I, you know, what do I want be when I grow up? Yeah. And, and And I started breaking down some of the things. I started, actually, for me, I started right at the end. I said, okay, when I die, I'm gonna be lying on my deathbed. Hopefully I'll get that opportunity. What do I, what's gonna be going through my head?

And there was the question of, you know, for me as a Christian Guy, am I going to heaven? Are my kids going to heaven? Are the people around me? Go. But then I started thinking, well what about the dead time leaving in the universe? Am I doing the right thing? Is it gonna be a good thing? You know? And then I'm like, well, where do that, where does that come from?

What do I like? What is interesting to me, and so this is where I'm kind of going with you, is there's a central passion that you're working with, whether it's business development or a podcast or whatever. There's a theme to this and it's helping others. Yes. Probably. I think. You know, secret inside voice.

It's probably always helping others. I think a lot of people, that's what drives us, is it's, is this ability, you know, if you look at Maslow's hierarchy, you know, food, shelter, survival, things like that. But you get up there and, and it becomes this thing of purpose fairly quickly. Yeah. And when we're striving for that purpose and understanding where that's gonna lead, now we start having a few opportunities.

What is it gonna be? Is it gonna be podcasting? Is it gonna be business development? Is it gonna be helping and mentor and entrepreneurship? Is it gonna be, you know, creating micro loans? I don't know. Yeah. It could be all of those. It could be none of them. But here's the part and, and this is the scary part, I think most entrepreneurs die of indigestion before they ever die of starvation.

Can you explain that? The idea is too often we entrepreneurs take on too much on their plate and they're stuffing more things on because they have this central theme of, say, helping others and they're doing podcasting and business development and, you know, coaching and have 17 things on the plate. Or they see an a avenue to help somebody and they create a pro a service.

And then they have a, an app that goes along with it, and then they start bolting on this other thing. And all of a sudden it's this behemoth thing that kills them because they're having indigestion. They're, they've eaten too much rather than slowing down, settling on one thing because it's not, it's, it's, well, I don't wanna say it's impossible, but it, the, well, here's a, here's a, a metaphor for you.

If we go outside, you know, nowadays I, I can get a, I'm not, I'm a pretty white guy, right. I can get a sun, I can get a sunburn pretty fast. Yeah. Right. I know, I know what's going on under that hat, right? Yeah. The back of my head gets a little more red than it used to. Yeah. Right. But the sun, which is the strongest power source that we know of, if I go out for a few hours, the most I get is a sunburn.

Mm-hmm. But if I take a five kilowatt bulb and focus that I can cut through steel. And so this idea of one thing executed excellently will cut through steel versus this big thing that focuses on everything. Yes. Right. And so that, that's where I think entrepreneurs. Run into problems is when they are trying to do everything for everybody.

Yeah. When they should probably just do one thing. And I'm not saying now, once you start to figure out that theme for you, whatever it might be, and I say this to your listeners too, sure. Now you can focus a couple of elements around that and make it stronger, and that's fine. But when we're, if we're not sure what that outcome is gonna be and what our story arc wants to be and what we're trying to accomplish in life, and the dent we wanna use leave in the universe, then I think we're missing on our day-to-day execution of that, because we're just shooting for anything that feels good and sounds good and whatever comes along right.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I, I agree completely with you with regards to stick, to stick to something that you're really good at, because I totally get what you're saying. If you start to bite off more and more and more and you start to get outside of that, of that niche, you cut out for yourself. Yeah. 100% you can, you can crash and burn real quick.

Mm-hmm. I, you know what I mean? I, I watched, I watched, you know, previous companies that I've been with start to kind of get outside of their comfort zone with regards to services they offered. And I would say that almost every single one of them ended in failure because it's just too far outside of what they were used to doing or what they knew how to do well.

And then, you know, inevitably they ended up having to keep coming back to that thing that they started with to try to essentially recover from that damage done by trying to bite off more than they could chew . And I know with Capital, that was something that I'd watched happen enough times that when I founded Capital, I just knew like the business development service.

That's it. That's all we're gonna stick to. No, we don't do the account management, we don't do the sales follow-ups, we don't do all that because if I stick to what we are good at, we are gonna be amazing at that one thing. And that one thing is gonna do what it needs to do.

Colin Christensen: Yep. And yeah, having the discipline to be able to say that is, It's fundamental, right?

Like, and it's, and it's probably one of the things that has, has made you successful because you need to, it's not a matter so often it's a matter of subtraction more than It's in a matter of addition yeah. Right? And, and getting down to the core and the, the real thing that you can be the best in the world at.

You know, Patrick Lencioni talks about that with the hedgehog principal and in Good to Great. No, not Patrick it's Jim Colins in Good To Great. You know, he talks about the Hedgehog principle, right? I like it. The Roadrunner principle, right? Yeah. Roadrunner was always good at one thing. Beep beep right? Yeah.

Coyote came up with a million different hair brain schemes and none of them ever worked. Right? So that, that ability to focus on one thing and execute excellently is, is really key.

Kelly Kennedy: That, and I think surrounding yourself with, with really good people. I've been incredibly fortunate in my life that, in my, in my career in sales and business development, I've worked with incredible, incredible mentors who, you know, whether they were bosses of mine, whether they were just people that came into my life who, who were in the business that would actually sit down with me and we'd go back and forth, kinda like me.

And you were going back and forth now and just, Hey, yeah, this worked for me. This didn't work for me. I learned so much of what wasn't gonna work for me from other people. That frankly, it saved me. It probably saved me years, Colin, and, and a lot of money and a lot of my own mistakes where I, I essentially got to watch somebody else make those mistakes and learn from them before I got to do it.

So yes, surrounding yourself by people who are great, who are, who, who, who understand what you're trying to do, maybe have even tried it themselves and can, and can give you feedback and information is truly, it's, it's invaluable. It's priceless.

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Well, I think that's right. I mean, it comes back to that idea of, to me, humility and what did I say?

Humility and curiosity, but add one more to I would be empathy, which I think kind of goes. It kind of is the, the thread that wraps around them both, right? Humility as in I don't have all the answers. And curiosity as to why do you think that way, right? Mm-hmm. Whether it's coming from race or gender, or diversity of any kind, being able to have that understanding and look to other people and learned from their mistakes.

You know, I think arrogance calls us to go and do our own thing, thinking we're gonna be different. You know what is it? 80% of the drivers think they're above average. Right. Clearly that

Kelly Kennedy: We're all the best drivers.

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Clearly that's a stat that doesn't work, right.

Kelly Kennedy: No, no, I totally get that. And I think, like you said, you kind of mentioned it earlier, the show that us as entrepreneurs too, we always think, you know, like you said, a lot of us, we think we got it all figured out.

We think we got it right. You know, I, I know for a fact I don't have it all figured out. I, I, I hope I know. That I don't burn. Right. But, you know, I mean, I'm learning every single day. I learn from all of these interviews. I learn from all the lunches and all the get togethers. You know, every single time that I have an interaction with somebody, I find that I'm learning something new that I didn't know before.

And you need to keep that open mind. You really do. Because the reality is, you know, if you think you know everything, even if you, even if you did, even if by some miracle you knew everything, you only knew everything up to that day. And after that, you still need that new information. You still need to talk to other people to figure out what's next.

Right?

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Well, so true.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, I wanna kind of take us forward, Colin. We really, we got on a great tangent there though. I really enjoyed that conversation, but I want to take it a little bit more back to you. I wanna. It's not every day that I have, I have you on the line, so I have a lot of questions that I kind of want to talk about.

Sure. And one of the things that I want to talk about is can you let us know what you're excited about? I know you got a, you got a million things going on, but like, can you tell us a little bit about something you're doing right now that really excites you?

Colin Christensen: Sure. Okay. If I, if I look at the world, you know, hater's gonna hate, but innovators are gonna innovate.

Mm-hmm. Right? Entrepreneurship's been a part of our DNA from the very beginning. Right. However many years you want to go back 10,000 plus years or whatever, whether you're, you know, we have a, a need for survival, you know, for for procreation and food and drink and survival and all that kind of stuff, but also for community.

And the beautiful thing about community is we help each other, right? And we have different talents. You are better with a mic than I am, and you're, you know better looking than me or whatever. You know, as things turn out, we need to rely on one another for different elements. So I think innovation is powerful, whether it's Galileo or, you know, Newton or, you know Michelangelo or, you know, the guy that created Red Cross or you know, Steve Jobs or whatever.

We're all innovating, right? And we're, and everybody's got some really unique views of the world and what needs to be fixed, right? What breaks our heart, what makes us meet one of the girls I'm working with right now she works with immigrants from Nigeria and she helps them cuz they're always sending money back to the country.

Yeah. To help their aging parents. So she makes sure that with GPS tracking and really good financial services to make sure that their parents can get support and help and looked after. So the, you know, by sending money back in a way and they can track where the person is and that they actually got the care and all these kind of things that are important.

I would've never thought of that. Yeah. I have parents here in town, I don't care. My, so to answer your question, I guess in a long story short is innovators are gonna do innovation cool things and we need to get outta their way. But it's not an intuitive thing like you said. I mean, it's one thing to bake a cookie, it's a different thing to start a bakery.

Yes. Right. So this idea of being able to Entrepreneurs, wherever they are, provide for their family, create space for something interesting and, and a, a new opportunity that keeps 'em outta risky businesses, or, you know, grow something of consequence into the next Uber or the next Facebook or whatever it is.

Those are the things that really, really excite me. Mm-hmm. And so if we could democratize the idea of entrepreneurship and get a couple of those fundamentals right, I think we're just gonna see even more acceleration to the change in the world in a good way.

Kelly Kennedy: So how do, how do we do that? Because, you know, I'm, I'm gonna speak to this, Colin.

I have a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this show who, they've got one foot in the water, maybe they, maybe they've incorporated, maybe they're thinking about it. They haven't quite taken that leap yet. How do we motivate them? How do we, like I said, for me it, it was a catalyst. My catalyst was, it was me mostly.

But you know, I mean, I had a bit of a kick in the butt when it was like, okay, well my career, I'm not sure what the next couple years look like. Maybe it is time for me to go out on my own and take this change. And I, and I, and I, I'm so thankful that I, I took that leap. But I'll tell you what, I was scared shitless.

I was pretty scared, Colin, when I took that jump. Cuz obviously you're jumping into the unknown. You're jumping into something that may or may not work. And you know, like the, you know what, I had a family, I had lots of stuff going on. And I I think a lot of my, a lot of my listeners are these people.

They're, they're people that are right on that fence. They have a great idea. They can do it. They're just, they're afraid. What, how do we motivate them?

Colin Christensen: Well, I mean, that's a, that's a big question and I don't think it's an completely unanswerable, but I, I, or I'll take a stab at a couple of ideas around it.

One, I don't think we can ever motivate anybody. This idea of carrot and stick. I mean, you know, Daniel Pink talked about the three levels of motivation, right? The, the lizard brain that kind of functions for survival and, and, and food and drink and things. Level two is carrot and stick, right? If I hold a gun to your head, I can get you to do anything mm-hmm.

Until I stop holding the gun to your head. Sure. Right? Then you'll do whatever you want. And then intrinsic motivation. And when you can tap into intrinsic motivation, then, then things start to happen. Now, what's really interesting about those motivation factors is with an entrepreneur is I can't motivate an entrepreneur to do anything.

Right. And I've tried, trust me. But there are certain elements that do, like, you know, when I had a 32 year old woman come to me in, in Honduras and say, I can't get a job. I have a family, I have a b a Bachelor of Science, and, and I'm, I'm, well, you know, educated and all this kinda stuff, and I can't get a job.

You know, what's her choices? Right her, she's got a family, so she could go into prostitution or drug dealing, or arms dealing or some stupid thing, whatever it might be that's harmful and and dangerous for her and her family's life. Or she could try to start a business because she can't get a job. So what does she do?

So we can't, that motivation comes intrinsically, right? She is looking for something and we just need to create a space and some simple frameworks for them to be able to do that. We did that. We helped her. We, we saw her succeed.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah, since you went there. Can you tell us about Hope Worldwide?

Colin Christensen: Yeah, sure.

So Hope Worldwide is a worldwide organization that does, you know, that does benevolent good. It is very similar to Red Cross. They have 70 some odd locations around the world in, in impoverished nations. A lot of time where they're helping folks with, you know, medical brigades and construction and, you know, rebuilding after an earthquake or whatever it might be.

They. Excuse me. They were the quarterbacks for a lot of the work in the Ukraine. They worked with Nelson Mandela over the years, you know, they're 30 years old as an organization. They're semi associated to our church, right? And so that's how I got to know them over the years. And then I, so a couple of years ago, I approached them and I said, you know, this is great.

We do all the services for 'em, but could we potentially turn that around and say, let's teach you to fish and, and teach a little bit of entrepreneurship with a little bit of a microloan and you know, a zero interest loan to give back and, and do it through crowdfunding similar to Kiva. And so we, we approached that in 2019 or so, and the team went, yeah, let's do that.

So we raised a couple of hundred thousand dollars and we we started a pilot project down in Honduras, and we gave out our first loans April, 2020, right. Right at the start of the pandemic. And it went absolutely bonkers. It was a police state and all this kind of stuff. Then they got hit with two hurricanes that summer.

And by the end of the year, we still ended up with a hundred percent repayment loans, you know, some were behind schedule, but everybody was making monthly payments. Wow. Even if that was a little reduced. So what I noticed from that though is we never told them what to do. We never held their feet to the fire.

We never told them we were coming after them. If they didn't pay none of that, it was truly by extending trust and extending a community and extending capital and training to them that they turned around and, and honored that with all their life, with all their ability. And so that goes really to that motivation thing for people starting their own business.

If it's the only thing. Or say Covid hits and you are gonna be kicked outta your job. Well, those are strongly motivational factors. It's not the only motivational factors, but those are the things that I think, like what are we attaching to? And that's why I say, look at that life plan. What's the dent you wanna leave in the universe?

Is your nine to five job getting you that? Even if it isn't, well, what could you start on and start putting the foundation in place? The, the, the, the deck or the, the, you know, the hole of the boat such that when you get it to the point where you want it to, it's something that you're proud of and excited about.

So I don't think it's a matter of us necessarily motivating entrepreneurs as much as it's a matter of creating space and the fundamentals that they need so they can build whatever they want.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I, I want to touch on that a little bit because I know, I know you're a man of faith and I am too for my listeners out there, and I truly do believe that.

I believe that we all have a, a life plan. I, I, you know, I mean, I, I have to say, even though it's a little bit crazy, this sounds a little bit nuts, and I know this isn't typically the business development podcast that, that you guys know, but I just gotta say I've been incredibly fortunate and lucky in my life, Colin.

Yeah. I've ran into challenges, but I'll tell you what, when, when the cards have been down, they were never down for long and I feel like I was always. I always got the lucky side of the, of the, of the chip, if you know what I mean. Like if thing, I've just been incredibly fortunate and it doesn't matter what it's been in my life, you know what I mean?

Thing for the most part, if I, if I wanted something bad enough, I, I found a way to get it. If if something was gonna go bad, there was always another avenue that, that was great that, that opened up for me. Or, and so I have to say that I truly do. Yeah. While I work really, really hard and I put a lot of, you know, my, I don't, I don't put all my, all my all my, all my cards on faith or on on on luck, right.

But the reality is I feel like if you're, if you put in the effort and you're really working towards something, the the universe aligns for you. And, and I know it's a little woowoo, I'm sure to a lot of people that sounds a little bit wild, but I'll tell you in my life, that has been the experience.

Colin Christensen: Well, the, there's a saying that says luck favors the prepared. Right. And it's, and it's, and I think that that's, I do a lesson, actually, you know, I, I've, I've done, I've had my opportunity to speak a lot in my life, and I really do enjoy it. I was terrified of it for years and I slowly got, slowly got better at it.

But now, you know, I'll do a sermon and, you know, you ever want good practice on speaking to people, do a sermon in front of a church that, you know, everybody there has probably better opinions and more understanding of the scriptures than you do. Yeah. So when you get upfront and you start talking about something that everybody knows is an expert in already Yeah.

You, you're, you're in for a bit of a ride. But my point is, I, I, I have a, a message on, on, you know, if God is real, why is there so much evil in the world? Right. And that's a, that's a really common question. And I got up and, and preached on that for, you know, 50 minutes, 40 minutes one day and I, I really broke it down because, similar to you, or maybe a little bit more extreme to you, and we're gonna talk about this, I think, but that luck card hasn't always played for me.

In fact, it's probably gone the other way a lot more times than not. And so, Because of that, you know, I have two choices. It doesn't matter what cards you get dealt right. You have to play them. Yeah. And, and whether you play them well or whether you fail at 'em doesn't really matter. But, you know, failure isn't a, a permanent state.

It's a, a choice and, you know, turn an opportunity to turn around. So I'm, I'm definitely not, you know, as optimistic as I was when I was a teenager, thinking I could fly for crying out loud, you know? Mm-hmm. Overly optimistic and arrogant. But the idea that when life goes the way it goes, you can't always choose and you have to figure it out.

So I'm definitely still optimistic in, in the grand scheme of things, but I'll, I'll tell you anyways, in that message, there was three main points. One, if you don't pay your mortgage for a whole bunch of time and then wonder, and then blame God for getting kicked outta your house, you're doing it wrong.

Right? Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. So sometimes failure happens at your own hand. Yes. Sometimes. You know, we all have free will and so people are idiots sometimes and, and they will take and steal and rape and pillage and, and cause all kinds of problems for other people. And you can't always work with that. But that's something we have to put up with.

Mm-hmm. And then the third thing is we live in a chaotic world. You know, we have hurricanes and earthquakes and crazy stuff that happens in cancers and, and, and, and viruses and all kinds of things that we have no idea about. But what we can do in response to that is comfort one another. Right. And so all three of those disaster stories come for different reasons.

One, we're idiots and do stupid things for our own even when we know it was dumb. Two other people do stupid things and we sometimes get affected by it. Absolutely. And three, sometimes we can't control the environment around us, but we have to deal with it and we can go and help others when we have a chance to.

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, for sure. And, and I guess what I wanna touch on is, I'm not saying that I've. I haven't had some incredibly bad luck. I have totally. I've, I've definitely had some pretty bad times in my life, some incredibly challenging times. But I'll tell you what I've managed to stay very positive. I, I have a very positive outlook on life.

I'm incredibly optimistic and I realize that through every bad time it will end, and a new good time will start. And you have to just keep that mindset, even if you're feeling really burnt out, really low, or, you know, like you said, like other people do things sometimes that are incredibly painful and you just gotta live through them.

And it sucks. Yeah. But that too will end and there's a way forward. And the key, like you said, it's, it's in you, you have to try to find, you have to find that positivity and you have to find that optimism within yourself. But it's carried me through a lot of bad, a lot of bad, and, and truly, like you said, I feel like because I've stayed so optimistic, because I've stayed so, so positive in some ways, maybe I have made my own luck.

Colin Christensen: That I think that's true. I, there's a saying, I mean, I, you know, I have three older kids now and you know, there's certainly been bouts of depression and challenges and, you know, certainly even we went through some of our biggest disasters and lost everything and had no money and all that kind of stuff when our kids were, were little.

Right. So we had to deal with a lot of that. And that was, you know, on me and my fault. But here's the thing, there's, there was a saying I heard that I really loved and hopefully it'll help people too. Whatever is in here is a lot bigger than what's out there. Yeah. And, and I think that, you know, we don't know what we're made of until we get squeezed.

Right. And, and I've seen that even with employees. You know, you work with somebody and, and once the disaster hits, I mean, some of my closest friends, some of my trusted confidants are guys that have separate from me, gone through the ringer and lost everything. And because of that we have this connection, this ability to, you know, talk to one another and be open and real about stuff when others don't.

And that goes back to that third element of being able to comfort one another. But what is inside of us is bigger than anything that comes at us, whe mm-hmm. Whether it's cancer, business failure, or loss of life or money, or people we've had, you know, for us, we've had kids die. I've had kids almost asphyxiate themselves.

We've had, my wife went through surgery. We had one kid addicted to morphine when he was born because of my wife's back. I mean, I've gone through countless stuff. I almost died of flesh eating disease. I mean, throw it all on, like, just keep heaping it on whatever it is. Right? Wow. But wow. But if you understand it, we have more inside of us than what's outside of us.

And so we can overcome. I don't wish it on anybody, but man, I'll tell you, when you get into that corner, You can fight or not, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, for sure, for sure. I, and you come like, you know what I mean? When you walk outta something like that, you are a different person and yeah. It's like little things, things that bothered you before, they don't bother you anymore.

I can't even imagine. Yeah. I can't imagine the resilience. Yeah. And we're gonna get into this, Colin, Colin has a hell of a story and we're gonna get into it. Like I said, this is gonna be a two-parter, no question, but I, I definitely wanna stick to the business a little bit for now, Colin, because you've truly, you have so much.

And can you tell us a little bit about THNQ and then segue into The Entrepreneur's Roadmap, which is your book and now app?

Colin Christensen: Sure. So, THNQ evolved, think is kind of, well, think is my parent company, it's a company I own and owns kind of all the other companies or whatever. And so I just it that way.

I de-risk it and blah, blah, blah. And tax reasons. Sure. It's, it's my employer, right? I hire it, it, it, I'm it's employee and I get paid and all the money flows into that and then pays me, right? Yeah. So but THNQ is is kind of, it's funny because it's changed and evolved over the years and it was used to be THNQ higher and it was cause it was around hiring and recruiting and before that it was in graphic design and then supporting and helping entrepreneurs.

And it was just, it's kind of the done this evolution of. Service over the time. So THNQ is you know, where I'll invoice from if I'm doing some contract work, whether it's me training mentors, or coaching a company or, you know billing to an organization for, you know, some of the services that I provide in creating ecosystems or whatever it might be.

So that's all THNQ really is. But out of that, what happened was, that's where my brain trust is too. So the content for the book, the content for this curriculum, and this. Framework for helping entrepreneurs and training mentors, which is where the app kind of came in is it was all housed in THNQ.

And so I use that as where I license things out of, so to a group like entrepreneur roadmap, entrepreneur roadmap needed become its own company because it has an app, it has a separate group of investors. It has a certain purpose. It has a specific outcome. And so we turned that into a, you know, in a shareholder's agreement and an ultimate, you know, investment vehicle with a, a, a operational thing.

But the evolution to get there was, you know, I mentored and coached a bunch of companies over the years. Yeah, right. And every time I'd sit down, I'd inevitably get asked, Hey, Colin you wanna go for a coffee? And I'm like, yeah, let's go. I love coffee. You know, let's, and I wanna ask a bunch of things. I'm starting a business, I wanna get your opinion right.

I'm like, sure. So I'd always ask the same questions. I'd always get the same blank stares. And I'd always end up giving the same homework. And I'm like, this is cool, but it's weird. I wonder if I could put this together. And so I did, I, I created this kind of model, this curriculum if you will, this, this framework to say, okay, well I, I knew you were gonna ask that question cuz I'm just gonna ask you a question and I knew you wouldn't have an answer so I'm gonna get you to go do some homework.

Yeah. And so now I just send 'em to my own stuff cuz it's all there and it's just a kind of collection of all the outcomes that I've been using over the years. So what I've taken and worked with the hundred hundred 50 million entrepreneurs and leadership teams, I just slowly evolved that into a curriculum.

And then we started doing cohorts, right? We do weekend cohorts and, and, and I created slideshow and presentations and, you know, curriculum for these entrepreneurs. And slowly it evolved into, you know, this body of knowledge that kept growing. And eventually I wrote a book and put all the pieces around it to make that book.

But I'm like, ok, this book is great. It's filled with QR codes so you can work through the exercises on your own. So it's like a workbook, but you do it on your phone for the most part. And I'm like, This would be way better as an app. So then we developed it into an app and now the app is out and it's, and it's kind of helping entrepreneurs, but really where it works even better is working with mentors who work with entrepreneurs because it's the framework that I would use as a mentor to help entrepreneurs right.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, that's really cool. That's really, really cool. And I. I, so just, just for the audience, I have actually ordered this book. You can either get it in an app or you can actually get you can get his book on on Amazon. So, yeah, if you guys want, after this, if you guys are enjoying this, you're enjoying this interview with Colin he's got an, he's got a book.

It's the Entrepreneur's Roadmap and you can pick it up on Amazon. Is where, is there other places that it's sold, Colin?

Colin Christensen: Oh, probably. I don't know. I mean, it's funny cuz other places pick it up. I, I, you know, I did it because it was one of those things I needed to do for crying out loud. I'm climbing Mount Everest. Right?

Yeah. And, and, and it was one of those things too. It was kind of funny because I had all of it done except for one chapter and a bunch of my friends, or a couple of my friends had just, you know, kind of got through and released a book. I'm like, this is stupid. So I sat down on the weekend and I just pounded it out the last chapter and got it out to the editor and, you know, and then it became a book.

Right? So, No, sorry, go ahead. Oh, that's it. I mean, and the app is just, the app is, like I said, kind of the newer version. I mean, the, the book is interesting cuz it's got some stories in it. Yeah. But the app is, is a lot more condensed to kinda choose your own adventure through entrepreneurship.

Kelly Kennedy: That's really, really cool.

What I would like to know, what was it like writing a book? You know, I mean obviously we're, we're entrepreneurs, we're business people. What was it like to kind of sit down and be like, okay, now I gotta figure out how to put this on paper. What was that experience like? Or how did you, how did you come to that conclusion and then make the choice to start doing that?

Because I feel like, I think it, sorry, go ahead. No, it's okay. I was gonna say, I feel like as, as like, as like business entrepreneurs like me and you are, oh man. I love the idea of a book. It's like, obviously in my mind I think about it quite a bit. Like, I do think at some point in my life I'm going to do one.

Sure. I just like, I can't even imagine where to start. So like just from someone, literally someone doing in the exact same kind of space, where did you start? How did that process start?

Colin Christensen: Well, I, I think it comes down to, well, I mean, really introducing me to the story and how I got to where I am, which you're kind of talking a little bit about and asking about, you know, that kind of mindset and things like that.

But ultimately it was a, I think there's some value that I, or a space that I see missing in the world. And actually part of it was, I, now that you mentioned it, I sat down and I had a coffee with, you know, I meet with people all the time and I'm, I sat down with a guy that was a New York Times bestseller, published author or whatever, and he started, you know, I'm like, wow, that's cool.

Like, how'd you write a book? And blah, blah, blah. And he, he kind of said the same thing. And I'm like, he's like, well, so what do you think the world is missing? You know, what, what do they need to know when it comes to this space? And I said, well, lots of people are doing what I write about and what I talk about.

I mean, I just took a bunch of ideas from the 500 plus books that I've read, and I've seen the common theme over and over and over again. If you've ever want to read a good book, Austin Kleon. He writes a book called Steal Like an Artist, and, and he talk, it's actually written in Instagram posts, like, it's like this little single PI page.

And it's just a couple of words on a page. It's really quite cool. But he talks about how artists like Picasso would come up with things and they would study their favorite artists. Yeah. And see a pattern. And then they would start to go, okay, well that's cool. Why did that guy write like that? And they'd look at their muses and start to understand where that came from.

And then they'd go under them and see their muses and kind of keep going. And all of a sudden, by about two or three thing layers deep, they have this own framework and this own methodology of how to do things. Now it's their own. It's the same thing that they've seen and evolved. I mean, I'm not doing anything other than standing on the shoulders of giants of other people that have done things very similarly, but I saw it in a hole.

And so this guy, this author asked me the question, what's missing? I'm like, well, one thing that's missing is what goes on between the years of the entrepreneur. When you blow apart at the seams and lose everything, we lost four and a half million dollars of other people's money. How do you rebuild?

Everybody's got a book on how to business, but nobody talks about what goes on between the years of the entrepreneur. And that's where the book started kind of evolving. And so I talk about my mindset and the story, the the, the, the crazy ride that happened to get to me where me to where I am. And, and that story became the thing that was missing in the world.

And so, you know, you have a story about business development, about what the world should know about the space that you do a little bit differently. And so, and I think any entrepreneur has the same thing, this unique view of the world. So take that and explain it to the world, the way you see it. Yeah.

Right. So for me it was just a matter of here's the core elements, here's seven things that I think the, you know, seven buckets if you will. And under those buckets, here's some rules. And under those rules, here's some exercises you can work through. And it became a book right.

Kelly Kennedy: That's so interesting. Like, I can't even imagine what that must have been like, especially once you finally got published.

Like, it must, it must be such an amazing feeling.

Colin Christensen: It's, it's, it's cool. Like, it's really neat to kind of see it and, you know, look at it and go, Hey look, I got a book, you know, and, and, and all that kind of stuff. So it's kind of fun. And then, but it's still bizarre. It's like writing your own autobiography or, or you know, biography about who, you're like, you introduced me.

I'm like, this is stupid. I don't want any, you know, glory. I just wanna try to get the idea out. Right.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I guess one of the questions that I have for you, and it's like, you know, I mean, I, okay, this is, this is maybe a little bit personal, but I guess what I'm getting at is, is like everybody wants to get to this point where they're like, yes, I've made it.

And it's so funny cause I've had so many people reach out to me, like family, friends who are like, Kelly, you're doing amazing. Like, you know, like, I look at what you're doing and it's just, it's next level. And it's like, you've made it, like, they look at you and they're like, you've made it. And it's like, no, I don't, I don't feel that way.

You know, it's like, Have you ever had a point where like, it just, you felt like, yes, you've made it? Because I know for like, I know for me, and I don't know whether it's just I'm holding myself to like this crazy impossible standard, but I feel like to the outside world, people can look at you and say like, you know what I mean?

Even me, like I, I did this to you. I said, I said, I looked at you and I was just like, I was actually nervous to meet you. I really was, because I look at somebody like you who has so many accomplishments, you know, like 30 years in business, started numerous businesses. You've been immensely successful.

You've gone through a ton and then built it all back and, and you know what I mean? It's kind of like standing next to a giant sometimes from where I stand, but it's like, I'm like, it's so funny that like, even for me, I haven't really come. I've come a long way, but I don't see it. Do you know what I mean?

Does that make sense to you?

Colin Christensen: Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, and I think. Well, I've had the fortune. I don't know what it was, whether it's, you know, this idea of Christianity and everybody's kind of equal at the foot of the cross. I mean, Christianity gets a pretty bad rap. And frankly, it ought to, with the way that people act.

You know, people are idiots sometimes in so many different ways. But if we understood what it was really about, which is just, just inclusive, like everybody's equal, everybody's the same, everybody's worth has, has value, treat people as equals and all that kind of stuff that it's supposed to be, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, we're not any better than anybody else. And so I, I think partly because of that, I haven't. Been very starstruck by many people. Yeah, right. You know, I'm always encouraged to meet people that are, are cool and interesting, but it, to me it's, you know, I've had the chance to work with, you know, several multi multimillionaires over and over and over and over again, and guys that have multiple businesses and, and I look up to them and they're my mentors and all that kind of stuff, but they're still just a bunch of goofy guys.

And I love when you start getting into conversations and you're, you know, doing, telling stupid stories about whatever and getting together and watching UFC or whatever it might be. Like, it doesn't really matter having a barbecue, everybody's the same. Yes. It doesn't matter. Like, I'm nothing special.

I'm just a dude with a, you know, some kids and, and I, and I've had some disaster and some cool stories and, and, and I'm, I'm very comfortable. Have I ever felt like I've made it. Yes and no. Like every day I wake up and I'm the, the happiest guy in the world because my life is, is pretty darn awesome. Yeah.

But I enjoyed it when it, I still enjoyed it and found ways of founding joy when I was making $16,000 a year with a family of five. Yeah. Right. I, we couldn't survive. We we're surviving off of rice. But there's a way to be grateful. There's a way to find joy in it. There's a way to enjoy it. You know, the fact that I have my health, I have my family, I have my friends, I have house a roof over my head.

And even if you have none of that, we've had, I've had so much taken away from me. We've lost our house, we've lost our mm-hmm. Business. We've lost kids. All of these things, whatever it is, there's always worse and there's always better. So, It's not worth looking up or down to anybody. Mm-hmm. Just enjoy the things around you and take it take opportunity and, and, and being grateful for what you have and, and, and learning from the people around you.

There's somebody one step ahead of you and there's somebody one step behind. One of my mentors actually uses this analogy all the time. He's is like, think of tennis, right? You should always have somebody that when they serve to you, you can't even return it. Yeah. Like, you just miss it every single time.

And you should always have somebody that you could just go back and forth with all day, back and forth. They win, you win, they win, you win, you win. They win, you know, back and forth. And there should always be somebody that when you hit the ball to them, they can't hit. Yeah. And that's the way we should be in life, right?

There should always be somebody we're helping up. There's somebody we learn from and, and spend peer-to-peer relationships with, and there's somebody we're learning from. And it doesn't matter whether you're, you know, the Elon Musks of the world, I wish you'd learned from more people, right? Sure. No comments on that but.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. It's like when you sit across the table and you have lunch with somebody, you realize pretty quick that, you know, within about five minutes that you really had nothing to worry about. But it's so funny. It's so funny cuz you know what I mean? I've been doing this for forever, Colin, like for this point, like it's been my entire career.

I've pretty much been doing meetings and business development for over 15 years, right. In some capacity or another. And I would say that even, it's so funny cuz even to this day, I still get nerves from time to time. You know, I'll still sit across from, from a Colin Christensen and I'll be like, I'll be a little bit nervous at first.

But it's so funny cause like you said, after about five minutes you realize they had nothing to worry about. But it's like getting through that initial nerves, getting through that first five minutes. It, it can sometimes be pretty hard on people, especially people that they're not, they're not experienced in meetings.

Colin Christensen: It's true. You know, somebody said the idea of, you know, if you're speaking to a crowd, like public speaking is a, is a real nervous point for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. And I really enjoy it now. Right. And it's partly because I think there's an opportunity for me to just be a goofball extend my energy.

Like I can, you know, my energy's pretty big as it is. And so if, you know, gimme a room of, you know, 200 people and I can fill it with my, you know, energy. But what I think is most fascinating about it is, you know, people said, oh, just picture 'em all naked, or whatever. I'm like, that doesn't do me any good.

But what really made a difference is being able to, when I, whoever I'm talking to, if I'm standing in a right crowd, I'll look at anybody in the audience and I can tell if I'm connecting. Mm-hmm. Right? Because if I look at them, we're all human. That's the funny thing is I have the same loves and passions and desires as anybody else.

I wanna be included. I wanna be seen as all right, you know, and, and nice enough guy and all that kinda stuff. And I wanna make a difference in the world. So if I'm looking at a guy and I'm talking to them and they're going, huh? You know, kind of tilting their head or, yeah, just not quite engaging. I know I'm not saying things right.

If I got a guy going like this in the audience and I'm like, okay, I'm saying something right. It's the individuals that we're connecting with and it's just a room of individuals, not an audience of a bunch of naked people that doesn't, isn't gonna do me any good to make it equal.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah. Yeah. I've had, I've had very limited public speaking.

I, I find, I find that, I'm sure I could do it now, but there was definitely a time, man, I don't think I could have done it. But yeah, I think I, I remember doing a public speech actually, to my college once I graduated, because they were, they were pretty impressed. I got a pretty good job right outta college, and they were like, oh, you should come by and like, speak to everyone.

It took me a, it took me a minute, man. I was pretty nervous at first, but what I always. I always find that nerves, nerves are something that they're short-lived. Like typically, if you just get started and you start running through it, and even if you make a mistake, just keep going. Realistically, after about a minute they, they come down.

They don't, they don't tend to go up and up and up and up forever until you collapse. Typically, you know, they peak and then they come down. So if you can just get through that first five minutes, that first 10 minutes, maybe even less, if it's a literal public speech you're gonna be okay. But you just gotta get through those first, those first minute of nerves.

Colin Christensen: Yes. Which tells me that it's not the situation that's nerve wracking, it's the fear of what it is. I am claustrophobic. Right. I remember I went to. St. Louis. And I thought, I wanna go up in the arch, like I'm here and this is gonna be cool. I'm not gonna get a chance to come back. I'm gonna go up in the arch.

And I'm like, you know, blindly just going, yeah, let's go man. That sounds cool. So I went in and I'm looking at the pictures and seeing the stuff and I'm by myself cuz my wife wasn't with me. And I was at a conference and I'm like, okay, this is cool. And I get down and I, and I don't know if you've ever been there, but the, the, there's an elevator and it's built in like the, you know, 1920 or 1915 or something like that.

And, and so they have these little steps and then there's these little doors little round doors, and then there's the little elevator pods. And these pods are little steel elevator pods and you're supposed to fit six people in there or something ridiculous like that, right? And, and so I'm claustrophobic and I'm like, da, da da, you know, not even thinking about anything.

They open up the door and I'm looking at that thing and. Nope, that's not gonna happen. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's try, let's, let's just try and see what I can do. And they're saying like, okay, whatever you do, don't touch the sides, because the whole thing's conductive. And if you touch the sides, it'll stop.

And then we have to wait and you're gonna sit in that thing. I'm like starting to sweat, like Dickens and, and, and I'm with They put you with the little group and I've got a family of four. Yeah. It's two little kids and two adults and me. Right. And I'm going, okay, hold the horses. I'm gonna go sit in this thing and see if I can do it.

So I go sit in there and you're kind of hunched over. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm looking at the chairs over here. And I'm like, This is not gonna go well. Like, I am gonna freak out in, in like two seconds as soon as the thing starts moving and I'm not gonna get up there. And then so the, but it, it's the panic of the anticipation versus what actually happens.

Yeah. I can get claustrophobic in my bed, in my room. Mm-hmm. And it's all psychological. Yes. Right. And so, same with I think speaking and all these fears that we have, we're anticipating what could go wrong or how bad it could go instead of the actual situation. Whereas if we live in the moment and do it, it's funny what we can get through.

Kelly Kennedy: True. A hundred percent. I totally agree with you. It is, it is. E even, even though it's like, to you, it's incredibly real. The feelings you're feeling. I'm not discounting them, they're incredibly real, but you can control them like they are in your, your body. Right. So, I don't know. It's, it's hard because it's like, I'll be honest, Colin, I still haven't found a way to completely alleviate.

My anxiety and moments like that. Sure. However, what I've found there are things that I can do. Like for instance, I can have less coffee on those days, which for me, I'm a huge coffee drinker, but if I have too much coffee and then I have a meeting that I'm nervous about, not a good, not a good mix, I'm not gonna be in good shape.

But if I, if I don't have coffee that morning, maybe I have a little workout that morning, maybe I kind of do some things to calm my own body before I put myself into a situation that might be a little bit stressful for me. I perform considerably better. That anxiety point is much less time, might be like a minute versus five minutes or whatever.

And I find that I can, I can come back. But it's, it's so funny. It's, it's so funny to think that at this point I've probably had thousands of meetings in my life and I still, from time to time get nervous. So I, I actually have an entire episode talking about anxiety and nerves in meetings because it's like, if I have, you know what I mean?

If I still get it. Don't feel bad if you get it.

Colin Christensen: Of course, of course. And I, and that, that's so true. But that's the thing. I mean, again, I think one of the things that makes a lot of it better for me is, you know, really recognizing that we're human to human, right? Like, you know, nobody's, you know, sure, maybe I can punch my weight in, you know, better than the next guy.

Yeah. It's probably not gonna come fisticuffs in a room with, you know, talking about spreadsheets, right? Mm-hmm. But, but at the same time. But, you know, does this, is this guy who's a multi-billionaire that I'm talking with, is he gonna somehow impose his will on me and make me feel uncomfortable? Sure. He might embarrass me with something he says, but this is the thing.

If we, we ex, you know, if we just recognize that we're all human and we all have fears and we all have anxieties, you know, I think we're a lot more able to relate with one another on a better level.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, absolutely. We're all human. I think that that should really be the takeaway from this episode.

It doesn't really matter where you're sitting or who you're sitting across from. At the end of the day, you likely have families, you likely have things and, and hobbies that you enjoy. You probably have something in common. The reality is, is that if you can find ways to connect to people as humans and, and kind of maybe not focus so much on their success, or, you know, you're sitting across from a multimillionaire or a billionaire just remember, like you said, at the end of the day, we are all human.

I, I get that. That can still be something on your mind. It can be something that gives you anxiety, but I think you'll find that if you do sit across from them and you start talking, you're gonna have something in common. Cuz we're just all people.

Colin Christensen: You know, I'm gonna tie this back to entrepreneurship and back today, original thing on the customer idea.

So whether you're b2b, d2c , b2c, whatever it is your business is, it's always human to human, right? So if you are going and selling this cool technological advancement to a corporation, you're still. Solving a problem for that person in that seat at that time. Maybe it's that they don't want to get fired.

Maybe it's, they wanna look good to their boss. Maybe they just wanna make sure they have enough money to pay for a sick kid at home. We have no idea what it is. But you know, there's that saying that says nobody ever gets fired for hiring IBM , right? Mm-hmm. That's a statement for a reason. There's a reason that people hire IBM because they're feeling safe.

It's not because IBM has all the cool whistles and features and things like that. It's they're solving a problem in a way that is safe and in control and make sure that I can look good as a human. Mm-hmm. So that's where I think all of this comes down to is when we are going sales, you know, or entrepreneurship or things like that, we're not going out to sell this thing to say, look how cool it is and here's all the features that it has.

We're saying, you know what, you and I, you know, zipper our pants the same way we tie our shoes the same way. I bet you you have an emotional need that makes you feel good, looks good, and sounds good. I think I can help you with that. Yeah, right. When I buy a pair of pants, it's because I'm getting fat and I eat too much.

But I'm not gonna tell anybody that. I just don't want a new pair of pants. Yeah. Yeah. But if you can actually attach it to that, guess what? Why do you think all those ads on perfume are the way they are and all the insurance ads are the way they are and all those stupid pharmaceutical ads are the way they are because they're selling a transformation.

Mm-hmm. For the human that's on the other side of it, not the product itself.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. That's like at the end of the day, you know, I mean, I've never sold anything to a business. I've sold many, many things to individuals and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. And I'll tell you what, look, what I always like to think too is like, typically if people meet with you, I know a lot of, a lot of companies, they, they have a meeting and then they're scared.

They're like, oh, well now I get into this space where I really gotta sell something. Well, let me just tell you that if this, if this customer that you have a meeting with, if they didn't think that they had a need for your service, they would've never booked the meeting guys. You know, I mean, we're all busy.

We don't have time to waste. I, I definitely don't have time to waste. I know Colin doesn't have time to waste. We're not gonna take meetings with people if we're not interested in something that they have. Yeah. And so, one of the things I wanna speak to you is, is don't go into a meeting and sell, sell, sell.

Connect with them, have a conversation. You know what I mean? The reality is I always say the business will come, the business talk will come on its own organically. Don't force it. Don't force it. Sit down, ask about their kids. Ask about their last vacation. Figure out did they get a new motorbike this year?

Are they going, are they doing a riding trip or something? Try to connect with them as people first, because the reality is like, we know why we're there. We know at the end of the day there's some business potentially to be done, but nobody wants to just be sold anything. No one wants you to force their product down their throat.

Just have a conversation and eventually, in my experience, the customers almost always turn the talk over to the business side and start to let you know what their problem is.

Colin Christensen: Curiosity and humility. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, it's connection, right? It's human connection. Human connection needs to come first in all business before any product, before any service.

Yeah. All right. Well, you know, you are on the business development podcast, Colin, so I do want to pick your brain because you have built a lot of businesses and something tells me you've done a lot of your own business development too during that time. Sure. And I just wanna, I just wanna ask you, in your opinion, what has been the most effective way to grow your various businesses?

Colin Christensen: Hmm. Well, I think you know, in, in very high level view, I see a problem in the world. Check to see if other people see this problem the same way. Figure out a way to translate it, cuz it's always an issue of translation, right? I speak a language and when I say, say things in a certain way, people don't always hear it, Right.

So you've gotta figure out the language that they're using to describe that problem. And then once you understand the language, you can use that language to talk to them in a way that's meaningful for them. Yes. Right. And this goes for everything from psychology to whatever, you know relating music and, you know, games and all that kind of stuff, sports, whatever it is.

But to me, the most effective way to sell something is, you just mentioned it, is it's, it's human to human. It's a, it's about relationships and things like that. You can't sell something to somebody. You have to understand what they're fighting for, what they're looking for, what would make a difference to them, and then frankly, you should be able to easily walk away if it's not the right fit.

Yes. Right. They're like, why waste our time on selling something to somebody that nobody wants? Right. So let's focus on the, on the things, if we understand it, but where does it come from? Why is it happening? What's making it a difference? And then once you do start to figure it out, like, I spend enough time with entrepreneurs now that you know, I get it.

And I'm advocating for them all the time. The early stage entrepreneur to the big institutions and to the banks, and to the governments going, what are you trying to sell them? This is not making any sense for them. Yeah. Can we just go back to what they really.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. And I want to touch on this briefly cuz I have an entire section on it in my podcast where I talk about make sure that you are selling to people who can actually need and buy your product.

Because I see this a lot too. I see a lot of customers trying to like, just searching different industries, trying to just fling their product everywhere. And it's like, they're not even taking the time to figure out necessarily who needs it. But you are wasting a ton of time if you are not qualifying your customer to make sure they even need or, or want your product.

Colin Christensen: My favorite framework for this, we talked about this earlier, is the the concept of a job to be done. So the example, I mean, I'm summing up a bit of a video, but Clayton Christensen does a really great video. He's a Harvard graduate. No relation to me, unfortunately. Great Harvard professor, but he's dead now.

But he wrote a couple of great books. One of them is The Innovator's Dilemma. Another one is the Prosperity paradox and things like that. But he, he talks about this idea of a job to be done, and he, and he said, we were trying to figure out what's the deal with McDonald's milkshakes? And he does this video on this, and you can go and look it up, Clayton Christensen jobs to be done, jt B d McDonald's milkshakes or whatever.

But they're like, okay. So they found out that a lot of the. Sales of milkshakes were happening in the morning and they were trying to figure out why that was happening in the morning. And it turns out that, you know, it's the perfect thing if you've ever tried to commute with a sandwich in your hand Yeah.

It doesn't really work. And if you just get a pop or a juice, it, there's not enough viscosity to it. Right. You want something that you can almost chew. And so McDonald's milkshakes happen to be thick, really thick. Yeah. And, and Right. And so that it turned out to be so what's the job to be done? Yeah. So if, if you understand a job to be done, and it's not about selling a pair of pants, it's about, you know, covering yourself so you're not naked in public, but also, you know, you want your butt to look good or whatever you wanna do, or it, it's the right appropriate wear for the job that you have, but you need to understand what the job is to be done.

Mm-hmm. Somebody is not wanting to be fired and so they're trying to create a software that integrates all their different do hickeys in the back end, and so they have a job to be done. You're not selling this piece of software so you can make some money and, and be good to your boss, although that's your job to be done, but what's their job to be done?

Because they're gonna buy based on three areas they're gonna buy based on the functionality, which is the least important element. They're gonna buy for the social element. How does this make me look to people around me, my kids, my wife, my parents, my coworkers, my boss, whatever it is. And then finally, what is the emotional element that makes me, you know, formed, right?

I wanna feel like a hero. I want to feel like you know, a, a great dad. I wanna look good. You know, feel confident, whatever that emotion is, that's why we buy. Yes. But nobody ever addresses that when they're doing the sales. And so they're selling the functions. Every engineer ever sells based on every feature and function they have.

Steve Jobs. You know, imagine a thousand songs in your pocket. Yeah, yeah, sure. That's a little bit of functional.

Kelly Kennedy: It's amazing now to think of a world without a thousand songs in your pocket.

Colin Christensen: Right. Or the entire world in your pocket, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. 20 years later. It's pretty amazing.

Colin, you know what I want to wrap this up for part one cuz, but it has been absolutely amazing. This has been a great conversation. I, I do wanna end it off with this part with just one question and I just wanna say, you know, you've started a lot of businesses, you've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs.

If you could give one piece of advice to an entrepreneur, either just getting started or looking to take that leap from all your experiences, what would that be?

Colin Christensen: Okay. I'm gonna give three only because it's the top three that happens all the time. Okay. And one, we, we've, we've kind of touched on all three, but, well, no, we've actually really only touched the first one.

The biggest one, the one that most common happens is your idea is probably awesome. Prove it. Go and find somebody else who thinks it's awesome too. You only need five. Don't try to build for the thousand. Try to find five that think you're, where have you been all my life? That's the first thing. Yes.

Second thing, cash flow is very different than budget. Mm-hmm. Cash flow is a timing issue. If I have rent due on, you know, on Friday and I don't get paid till two weeks from Friday, I'm screwed. I could have everything on numbers look good on paper. Mm-hmm. But if it's a timing problem, that's a cash flow problem. Solve that. Third thing, don't hire your outta work brother-in-law. Okay. So, you know, just because he is said he could develop something and you want him to do an app for you, there's probably a reason why he is outta work. Mm-hmm. So slow down the whole hiring process. Everything that needs to slow right down, only bring in the right people for you and your business.

And it's not based on function, it's more based on the culture, it's based on the, where you're trying to go. It's based on the capacity, it's based on a lot of different things. But those are the three main things that I want every entrepreneur to try to get down. One, go talk to your customers. Find out why they're having the problem that you think you can solve.

Where does it come from? My favorite little thing. I'm gonna have a really short little story. I love this. I might have mentioned this to you before, but you know, people say they buy a drill because they're looking for a hole. Right? Let's stop for a second and dig in on that for even more. Okay. So, sir, you want to drill?

Yes, I'd like a drill. Why do you need a drill? I need a hole. Why do you need a hole? I need a plugged receptacle to put in. Why do you need a receptacle? Well, I wanna plug in a light. What do you need a light for? Well, I wanna be able to read at night. Go buy a Kindle. Yeah, right. So the whole thing is, I mean, we're trying to sell drills all the time.

When we don't understand the problem, certain people need a drill for a very specific reason, but if we're, they actually need a Kindle, then why are the heck are we trying to sell 'em a drill all the time? So we need to understand where the problem comes from so we can actually address that property.

That's the biggest issue that I wish I could solve in entrepreneurship.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And, and it's like you have to ask those probing questions to get to that answer, to truly figure out what the desired need is. And that's, you know what I mean, really, I see that as our job, as anybody in a meeting selling products.

You need to find out, you know, first off, you, you know, your customer may or may not need your product. You need to ask enough questions to figure out what their problem truly is, to know whether or not you have a product that'll fit that need or not. And you have to be okay if that, if it comes down to it.

And the answer is, you know, they actually don't need your product in a lot of ways. I think that that bring, that means a lot of humility. If you can tell a customer, you know what I, I hear what you're saying. I don't think that what we have is the right fit, but I really enjoyed this conversation anyway.

And you know, maybe in the future it will be, but you have to be able to. To walk away sometimes if your product is not going to fit that bill, instead of trying to cram it down their throat.

Colin Christensen: A no is actually a lot more powerful than a yes. Mm-hmm. And what I mean by that is a no will help you not only get outta there faster if it's the wrong thing, but it also, a lot of time it's like, no, but it's a no because you haven't explained the dirt, you haven't understood the problem yet.

Too many people have a soft Yes. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, sure. And then they never follow up. And they never buy anything. That's a waste of everybody's time. Yeah. So find the no's. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Narrows it right down to a very specific thing that you think you could probably solve for them.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely, and I'm gonna touch on this too, because from a business development standpoint, people are afraid of no's.

But I encourage it. I say, look, give me the no as quickly as possible so that I can move these people out and put someone in there that can give me a yes. Because like you said, if I'm getting a bunch of soft yeses and they're just wasting my time, I gotta call them week after week after week. I want that no, and I think that's what I got really effective at BD when I stopped being afraid of no and started hunting for no.

Colin Christensen: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I think that's. Awesome. Colin, this has been amazing. My God, so much great information in this episode. I just, I just wanna thank you so much for coming on and just for all my listeners, this has been Colin Christensen many, many businesses.

He's, he's founded, started, been a president of but the one that he's probably most known for. Would be entrepreneur roadmap. So if you guys are just starting your business he's got a book, he's got an app, check it out. It's got lots of great information. And this is gonna head into part two, so stick around next week and catch us for part two of the interview with Colin Christiansen, president of the Entrepreneur Roadmap.

Colin Christensen: Thanks again, Kelly.

Kelly Kennedy: And that is the end of this week's episode, part one, an interview with Colin Christensen. If you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have, please make sure that you stay tuned next week for part two, where we get into Colin's inspirational story of success, crushing pain, and back again, it's a truly amazing story that you will not want to miss.

If you've enjoyed today's episode, I please encourage you to either go to my website, hop on Spotify, or wherever you listen. Please give us a rating. Subscribe for future episodes, and until next time. We'll catch you on the flip side. This has been Kelly Kennedy, and you are listening to the Business Development Podcast.

Take care.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.