From Newcomer to Tech Innovator with Vijayan Swaminathan

From Newcomer to Tech Innovator with Vijayan Swaminathan

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to Milestone Episode 120 of the Business Development Podcast. And on today's expert guest interview, we are bringing you the CEO of XaddWell, Vijayan Swaminathan. We are going to chat all about software development and what it was like being a newcomer to Canada. Stick with us. You're not going to want to miss this episode.

Vijayan Swaminathan: The Great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs. And business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by capital business development, capitalbd.ca.

Let's do it. Welcome to the business development podcast, and now your expert hohost, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello, welcome to episode 120 of the business development podcast. And today we have an absolutely amazing expert interview for you today. Meet Vijayan, a seasoned technologist with over two decades of immersion in the dynamic world of information technology. Since his early days in 1999, Vijayan has not only adopted computers as his field of study. But has also embraced it as his profession.

Since 2003, his journey has been nothing short of extraordinary witnessing the evolution of technology from the era of floppy disks to the era of cloud storage and artificial intelligence with a diverse portfolio of experience. Vijayan has traversed the globe, living and working in 14 different cities across the U. S. A. Canada, Latin America and India. As the founder of XaddWell Vijayan has been actively shaping the landscape of digital transformation, leveraging his expertise to propel companies into the future. His passion for products, services and technology is palpable. As he strives to touch hearts, build exceptional teams, and drive business growth through innovation.

From his impactful contributions to corporate giants like Enbridge, Deloitte, and Honeywell, to his entrepreneurial ventures, Vijayan's journey embodies resilience, innovation, and an unwavering commitment to excellence. Vijay, it's absolutely amazing to have you on the show today.

Vijayan Swaminathan: True honor Kelly. Thanks for inviting me.

Kelly Kennedy: It's a true pleasure. Yeah, man. You know, in our initial conversations, the reason I reached out is I saw that you were very active in the Edmonton business community. And I was like, I got to figure out who this guy is and what he's doing because It looks like he's got some hype around him. And yeah, I was not wrong whatsoever.

Take me back. You know, man, you've done a lot. Holy cow. I'm really excited to hear your career because you have worked for some, some industry giants. You've been around the block in the IT community for an incredibly long time. Take me back to the beginning of your entrepreneurial career. Take me back to the beginning that your childhood, even, you know, Who is Vijay?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, Vijay, I'm originally I'm originally, I grew up, born, grew up in India so I've always been into computers from a very long time, I think 99, I think I remember still buying my first personal computer and getting into it, and, and for some reason, I just, like, I, I got hooked into it.

I love computers. Being, working with them. Created my very first webpage, probably in year 2000 or something. It, it was fun back then. I, I got into like a manufacturing course for a year or so. Then I, I did really well, but I ended up not liking it and then coming back to it from like 2002, 2003, then onwards.

I, I, I went through that as a professional coach from, from, from the very beginning did masters in computer applications and then learn, learn the trade and, and to really understand what it takes to be a computer professional, be an IT professional ended up working for big brands and across the globe from India and spent a lot of time in the United States, about five years there.

And truly understood the dynamic of the, of the East Coast and the West Coast and the Midwest. It, it, it was fantastic. I, my journey started from Iowa, Des Moines. That's where I started working. And then later moved to the East Coast in Pennsylvania. I worked for Deloitte for, for a good time there.

It's a, it's a large consulting company. Anyone would recognize delight. And I also spent good time with Honeywell, which is another American company previously prior to that. And, and, and since, since then we wanted to, we want, we had a lot of like friends and relatives also in Canada. And like, so we, we, we made a conscious decision to move north.

We spent about like about three and a half, four years in in the Toronto, Ontario area initially, then, then. Some there was a calling. I mean like I worked out of here. My wife had a had a connection here and in edmonton So we wanted to move midwest and and edmonton was always on the radar We're thinking calgary edmonton or saskatoon But like I think we we fell in love with edmonton and the crowd so we ended up settling here with aspen Which is closer to edmonton area and and offer the business and Specifically about XaddWell, I can get into the specifics of it, but like, that's where our journey started.

It's a long story short ended up living in 14 different cities, meeting different people. It was a, yeah, it was an absolute pleasure.

Kelly Kennedy: What an unbelievable experience. And I'm actually really, really excited because this is kind of my first newcomer interview. The first of many, actually, there's quite a few coming up, but you're the first of them.

And I'm really, really excited to understand The challenges that a newcomer to Canada faces because I haven't had, I haven't been able to have that conversation yet and it's such an important Canadian conversation specifically. And, and one of the things that I've really noticed with a lot of newcomers is, is that entrepreneurial fire that's inside of them.

They typically come here and start amazing businesses and so. I'm really excited to have you on today, and obviously we'll get into your journey, but talk to me a little bit about what motivated you to take that leap. Like, as a, as a Canadian, I couldn't imagine how scary it would be to uproot from my childhood home, from my friends, from my family, and move to, say, Germany or England, and yet so many people Make that choice.

Tell me about that choice. What is that like?

Vijayan Swaminathan: It was really difficult, actually, when even prior to coming to Canada. I mean, we, we lived in the United States for about four, four and a half years. We did not visit India. We could, we couldn't go, go back and see, see our parents for different reasons, right?

Economical and all different reasons, visas and whatnot. Yeah, it, it, there was a lot of struggle there. Then then, then we traveled and and we saw them all that. And it's good. Yeah, I mean, a lot of, I get this question very often. Like how are you able to approve yourself and then like be in these different places?

After living like, like it's not, it's not something to brag. I'm some, I'm really able, I think I'm learning a lot through traveling and meeting people and when meeting people in the States or in Toronto or here in Midwest, I think I met people from different cultures, different countries different backgrounds.

Most people want very, very basic things. They, they, they want one foot on the table, a safe roof over their head and then, and a safe place to live. That's, that's all they're looking for. And, and, and then, and some, and there are a lot of prejudices as well in terms of like the concept ideologies. And they stuck into that.

And like I, I've spent over like 15, 70 years in, in, in a career as well in corporate career. And people are like, generally, I think they're in, in, in a golden handcuff situation where they're not able to escape the nine to five, which is a real challenge. Mm-Hmm. . And the cost of living is super high. And those are some fundamental understanding.

I think people go through in their early career. And I think the sooner they figure it out and venture it out, it's going to be easier for them because like the, the later we take to try things and, and, and because like from the early childhood, I don't know what everyone has started in their home, but like, I think success, sorry, failure is not appreciated well.

I really talk about failure to anyone I meet because like failure, failure is something really important to understand. And if you're, if you're, unless you fail more you don't get any experience in learning and failure is the best teacher in its form. Right. Every time you fail you, you learn a bunch of lessons.

It's like, I mean, the lesson that you get from failure, it's, it's 10 times, a hundred times much better than watching a YouTube video or reading your favorite book. Right. So I would ask people to try it, fail, try, fail. And then like the more you try and fail, I think the progress happens. And failure is really the stepping stone of success in a different form.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I would agree with that completely

Vijayan Swaminathan: Right and and and to answer your question in terms of the struggles as an as a as an immigrant as an entrepreneur Again, I would go back to some fundamental myths and ideologies that you have to shatter yourself in terms of like none of this matters I mean where you're from doesn't matter What's your background?

What country you're from doesn't really matter. As long as you're able to communicate and people think like they're not able to English is not my primary language, right? Because I speak in the regional language from my country, but I've learned the, learned the language to to a larger extent, at least to be able to communicate professionally.

Well, right. I wouldn't say I'm an expert at it yet, but I'm able to at least do a basic communication. Well, and I, I love a lot of prejudices like that. Right. So in terms of like what race you are, none of this actually matters. What really matters is like how you're able to build your character and how you, what is the attitude that you put towards the society.

And if you're really there to help out people and you want to, you want to do well and do, I want others to do well. And I think people will be able to connect and, and, and then. See that real realism in you and be able to offer help and then move forward. And it's just that simple, actually. It's like people make it very complicated.

It's actually, it's that simple.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. You took a really, really challenging subject and really was just like, no, just be a good person, deliver high value and you will be valued. I do agree with that. I do agree with that. I also agree that cat, even in Canada, we have a long way to go. You know, with regards to prejudice, there's no question, no question.

And I know that. It, it must be challenging, at least in the beginning, when you come here to kind of, because it, you know, I mean, obviously here, when, when we're born here, this is where our, our ecosystem is, right? Our support systems. And when, when, when people immigrate to here from a different country, yeah, maybe you have family here, but maybe you don't, maybe you, maybe you're the first one.

And when that happens, I can't imagine, because You know, me and Shelby talk about this all the time. Canada is bloody expensive. We have taxes upon taxes upon taxes. I hate to say that as a Canadian, but we are paying way too much taxes. And it is not a cheap country at all. It is hard to get ahead in this country.

And so, you know, I see immigrants coming here sometimes and sometimes I wonder that must be really, really hard because Even when you have all those support systems, living here is still not easy.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, it's, it's, it's absolutely not. I mean, I totally agree with you. I mean, like, it's, it is super expensive.

And, and then, and I think what used to cost us back in the U. S., back in, it's, it's like 10 times, 20 times more expensive to actually live here. And and, and I, I, and I think the fire in the belly thing that you mentioned, I think, I, I don't, I don't really know what it means, but I think, The only thing that drives me is like when I wake up, I just, I don't, I don't look at the day of the calendar, whether it's a Saturday or a Sunday.

I mean, like more recently I'm speaking when I, when I was in the corporate career world, I'll talk about it a little bit later in my current space. I don't look at it, but it's a Saturday or a Sunday. I just get up and work. Right. And, and, and if it's a Tuesday morning or Wednesday, Wednesday morning, I feel like, okay, today's not the day I just put it off.

Like. Because if you're going to pressure yourself to do something it's not happening, right? So, and, and I think the work should happen naturally to just flow. And when it's not flowing, there's a problem. And if you're actually waiting for the weekend or you're like super sad on a Monday morning.

There's some underlying problem with it that you need to re examine.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, well, I think back to my time as an employee, and those were the times where I was looking forward to the weekend, where I was like, okay, I'm done for the week, like, let's go, let's go weekend so I can have some Kelly time. But there's something that happens when you become an entrepreneur and you start your own business and you alluded to it.

And it's that you don't mind going to work and because you don't mind going to work, Saturday and Sunday is fair game. But, you know, I just had an interview literally right before you where we were talking about how Because of that, as an entrepreneur, you really need to find ways to allocate time to be like, okay, look, I'm going to shut off from my entrepreneurship for a minute so that I can tend to the other things in my life that are really important, like my kids and my wife.

Right. And I think that that can be really hard. And you know, I challenged that guest where I said, like, that's not easy. Like, that's not an easy thing. And I recognize that because I've been doing this now for three years. I've run this podcast now for over a year. And Yeah, it starts to become very overwhelming, because it matters so much, because the success that you want to get from these endeavors.

It's intrinsic. It's a fire in your belly, right?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Right. Like I, I think you also have to look, look life at a, at a long term perspective. I have, I've spent my, I mean, I, I, I'll not lie, right. Because like I spent my time waiting for the Fridays and like sucking on, on the Monday. Oh, okay. Let's, let's get through this week. Right. And then like. And then clicking the play button on the next night, a Netflix episode and like a binge watched episodes and like nonstop being on social, I did all that.

Right. And, and, and all of that is a temporary pleasure. And I think we are also, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's cliche, but I think. It's being said that it's we are in the age of instant gratification as well. And we all, we should start looking at a long term perspective and then delay the gratification as much as possible.

Because like, I'm, I'm not now waiting for a promotion or waiting for a pay raise or for a certificate of appreciation from anyone for that matter, right? Because when we seek external validation so much, we start like, we, we start like undervaluing ourselves. And like, not really looking at what we can achieve and then things that we can control within our realm.

Right? Because I think that is super important. And if you focus on the things that we can actually control as a person, as an entrepreneur, I think life will move ahead. Even if, even if it's baby steps, it'll, it'll keep moving forward in a direction that you would like it to move rather than in a direction that you would.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, me and you definitely have that in common where it's like, if I want, if I want something, I'm not going to wait for someone to give it to me. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go figure out how to get it. I've been wired that way for a while. But yeah, definitely in my journey, my entrepreneurship journey, I've recognized that is that if you're going to sit around and wait, and this is this is just as true in business development.

If you sit around and wait, you're going to be waiting a damn long time, so you should probably do something about it.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Absolutely. Well said, man. Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, man. Okay, well, you know, bring us into, you know, your tech journey, essentially. You started out as a technical lead in Honeywell. Tell us about that.

Vijayan Swaminathan: So I so I think that Honeywell, I really had a wonderful time working for Honeywell. I don't know. Maybe for a phases off, it's still left with me. That's why I named my companies. I don't know, but I love, I love, I love working for Honeywell. I traveled to the States for business and traveled to Latin America for a longer time.

Spent about like five or six months in the Latin American region in Columbia. So did a lot of like software development, like. Meeting clients and then deploying software for them and, and looking at the other side of the world. I've never traveled outside of India prior to that. I think my travel journey started around 2010.

Since then I've been traveling back and forth to, to the client side. So, so I had the opportunity to serve. Clients from, from, from North America Middle East, Europe, and like Asia Pacific, Australia. And then, and I was truly able to understand what their needs are. And then initially, I mean, when I, when I even started talking, I wouldn't even understand the accent, right?

I mean, I shouldn't lie because the accent that we speak in India is very different and and I wouldn't even understand the accent and sometimes when I'm called with an American or, or anyone from Australia, I really have a tough time even understanding what are they trying to tell me? And like, I would ask my senior manager, what does he say?

They're saying again. And yeah, it's, yeah, we went through, I went through that. So it's it was a learning journey. I thoroughly enjoyed it on the other side. Right. And, and and being in Latin America, that was, that was really interesting. I mean, I don't speak a word of Spanish, Spanish. And those are the initial times of Google translate.

And they would, they would write me an email, everything in Spanish. And then Google translate was not very perfect at the time. And I'd actually go to the transit and try to translate it and then try and understand and write my version back in my English, and then it would go back and they would translate it again.

It was fun, man. It's had a lot of fun doing, doing that.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, man. Yeah. And so that was the beginning and you spent, what, roughly six years there. Wow. Like, what an amazing time. And then from there you went into software consulting with LaunchIT. Talk about that a little bit. I know you weren't there too long, but what was that like?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, I wasn't there for too long. So I was spent there about like three or four months there. Then I was looking for a better opportunity. It was a very small, like, like 20 or 30 employee consulting company, a small company. I still give it, give them a lot of respect. I think They, they, they were the ones brought me to the United States, so I really expect that.

So, but like we were, as a family, we wanted, I wanted to, I was seeking out a better opportunity. That's when I found Deloitte. And I ended up like working for the state of Pennsylvania in different capacities as solutions specialist, as a project manager and delivery manager and whatnot for for the state.

So working for the state or something different for the public sector, for the state, it's government agencies, they, the way they work is very different. I mean, one funny incident is like, I would be in the state of Pennsylvania office and it was, I was super thirsty after like two or three meetings back to back.

And I was looking for water. And I asked him, where's the water? And like, then someone asked me, are you part of the water club? And I said, I don't even understand what you're talking about. And I just need water. Right. I mean, so they have, they have a small group. They, they, I mean, they put money into it and only people who contribute can actually drink.

What I mean, so and and then from the next time onward, I would take my bottle of water and things like, I mean, the way the government agencies work is simple. Although there are luxuries in terms of like funding and other things, but when it comes to how they spend their money within the organization outside, it's very different than a corporate.

I mean, you go to any corporate office, you get like free coffee and like everything, right? Like, so it's, it's very different in a government agency. Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy to expect that.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. It must be a limited resource.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah. Yeah. It looks like it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And then takes into Deloitte. That must've been super cool.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah. So Deloitte is a consulting world. I mean, like coming from a Honeywell is more of a product engineering, product development kind of a company. Deloitte is more of a consulting company, management consulting, and the way they operate it, it's at a different capacity and then how they're able to handle clients at a big, a big enterprise and small enterprise or commercial clients.

I think it was a true. Journey for me to learn how the consulting world worked and working for some of the premier consulting industries, it's a top three or top five in the world, I think in the world, I guess. So it was a true honor to work for them and do the learning with some of the best people in the world.

And I absolutely loved it. And every, every project was very unique and, and I can, without getting too much into the detail of the project, just more around public sector work, working with the state. And sometimes it's not really easy to go and like go execute a project. So I had sometimes many times I was in the execution capacity where I had to lead a team of developers and like software testing team and have to bring people together.

So it's not just having a plan would, would suffers. So we have to follow through, be persevere. I mean, everything that we do as an entrepreneur, right. I have to do that as a leader back in the light. And then, and then go talk to them. And then sometimes the. A person in our employee would agree, but the senior director would disapprove of it.

So we have to go and talk to them and really like not canvassing, but at the same time, making them understand what are the good, good things and pros and cons. If you do this project and really getting a buy in of them and building that relationship. And all of that is a real lesson. Besides just doing the technical work.

And I think consulting work opened up the more, the journey of understanding people and the nature of the consulting business as a whole.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Well, it's, it's all about providing solutions. Right. And that, that unfortunately requires a lot of communication.

Vijayan Swaminathan: It does. It does. Yeah. And a relentless communication and you have to be relentless and ruthless with, with your with your endeavor. .

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. And then you came to Canada?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Canada, yeah, Canada. Where we, I became in 2018, we became permanent presidents at the time. And, and I think we came in July and I registered my company in August, 2018, I think, or month, month after.

So initially I was, I was doing a lot of like consulting work myself. I was the one working. I was a solution architect, technical, technical architect, tech lead kind of roles where I would be architecting and designing the software for, for, for firms I worked for some firms for Copenhagen, Denmark where for a banking firm initially, and then later we did a lot of work with Enbridge as well, so I was a chief architect and a technical lead for the project where we did a lot of AI work for the company.

Wow. So it was a good, a good journey. And it was really challenging. I mean these are some challenging things. My family used to live at the time of why you used to work in Ontario and my work, we used to be in Edmonton and it was pre COVID, right. That's when I joined and I used to fly back and forth like every two weeks from Toronto to Edmonton.

And and my family really struggled at the time because like they have to be alone, like, you know, We went through all of that cycle, but, but I think it was worth it. I did beyond learning and I think really understood I was, it was my first Alberta weather at the time. Like I was in the deep end in January here.

And my, I took a, I rented a condo in Edmonton downtown at the time and I had to really walk. Like five to seven minute walk to the office and it was, it was minus 37. I still remember those days.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay. Okay. Hold on. Let me pause you there. Cause we were talking, there's a lot of people listening who have never, they can't even fathom what minus 37 degrees Celsius is like.

Explain to them what it is like coming from a country that is hot most of the time. To being exposed to minus 37. What that experience is like.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, absolutely. I've seen winters before I've seen winters in Pennsylvania and I've seen snow, all of that. And I've seen the winter in Toronto. We spent around three or four years in Toronto at the time, I think.

Yeah. And we have seen the winters in Ontario, but the winter is in Alberta is very different, maybe similar in Saskatchewan as well, but like it's very different. And, and when you're in minus 35, minus 40 you literally cannot Like you cannot breathe air just like you breathe normally for a longer time.

And I would actually I would actually wear like two, two socks and like, like multiple layers and and even pre COVID and, and, and at the time I used to wear like a cloth mask just to protect, like, so that I can get it warm enough so that I can breathe, breathe the air. It's, it's, it's not, it's no joke.

And the surprising part for me is like, I would, I would walk into Edmonton downtown and it was minus 37 and it's like any other day, right. People are just going to the office, coming back, getting their Tim Hortons coffee. And it's, yeah, that surprised me actually. I mean, like there's, there's, there's, Yeah.

And I mean, even if it's a slight slight reference of snow in Vancouver or places like Atlanta, they would shut down the school and do all that. Right. I mean, like it's, it's, it's no, it's any, like any other day.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. We love our Tim Hortons

for, for my my worldwide listeners listening. No, we don't live in igloos, but yes, it gets bloody, bloody cold here. It is. It grew up in the world. Yeah. I grew up in it though. So it's so like normal, just, you know, that winter gets really cold. And when it does, you bundle up like crazy and you go out and you live your life.

Life doesn't change. You just, you just have to bundle up like crazy to go do it. But I know exactly what you mean about like breathing. Like when I was a kid, I used to have to walk to school, like not too far, but I walk to school because we wouldn't buy a bus because we live fairly close. And so I would like walk there and it wouldn't matter.

It could be minus 40. I'd still be walking to school. Right. And yeah, I remember having some really, really damn cold walks and coming home and being like, I can't breathe because my lungs are frozen.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Okay, man. Tell me more. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, it's funny. Like, you know, we just experienced probably one of the coldest cold snaps.

It's such a weird year. We're having the, like, strangest Alberta winter year in my entire life. I can't remember a weirder winter than the one we're having right now. It has been historically warm. Like the warmest winter I think we've ever had on record. It was Christmas, and there was still no snow. It was just like, normal outside.

It was like, plus, it was in the pluses I think, literally in December, which is very weird here. And then we had this like, crazy, super cold snap. where it hit like minus 45 minus 48 like probably minus 50 I think for a couple days.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Like feels like minus 50 that's what I saw in the yeah in the weather app.

Kelly Kennedy: Probably like one of the coldest cold snaps that we've had but it only lasted two weeks and now we're right back up to like super warm weather it's very weird.

Vijayan Swaminathan: You know what?

Funny, funny thing. I escaped that week. I was, I was in Las Vegas for a conference and yeah, my family didn't travel, but like they were saying, you are really lucky you escaped this cold snap, right? I mean, on the days where it was like, feels like minus 50. I wasn't there. I escaped those few days, but I was, when I was back it, it was again, minus 35.

Kelly Kennedy: I'm not going to lie. I've been a little bit jealous cause I've talked to about three or four different people now who were in nice warm climates for that cold snap and ended up leaving literally like the day before it happened and then came back after and they're like, Oh yeah, it's just been warm the whole time.

I'm like, ah, yeah, you guys.

So sorry. Awesome. Awesome. So. So after you did some work with Enbridge, talk to us about SGI.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, SGI was it was again a public sector work and I was able to relate much of work that I did back in for Pennsylvania State. And it was very similar And we did some insurance management system that like I was, I was one of the solution architects putting together architecture for, for the insurance company.

And then something that like not many Canadians are aware of that is like is yeah, it's a, it's a publicly funded insurance company by the province of Saskatchewan. Okay. Right. I mean, we, we, we, yeah, we, we understand TDs and RBC not advertising for any of our manual life for it. Not advertising for any other insurance companies, but I'm just saying it's mostly privately held, right?

And SGI is a provincially funded insurance program and that we were modernizing and revamping it. So, and, and then I think it, and it also ends up being much, much more affordable and, and I think the solution they're looking for is. Probably for the next 10, 20 years and how we can provide insurance coverage for EV cars and for extreme climate.

And they're really trying to modernize the system to a larger extent. And I think that's a three year long project. Just, it was wonderful working for, for, for SGI To the state for the province of Saskatchewan. But I was more like, I spent my time. I was, I used to work remotely but it is a good experience working for, for that client as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, I bet. I bet. And you know, okay. You're my very first, essentially software developer that I've had on this show. And. I would love to just ask you, like, I think to like people like me who just use software, have no idea how it's working behind the scenes, dude, what you do is like magic. It is, it's, it might as well be magic that the websites work and that all these programs run on my computer.

Talk to me, what is developing software even like, what's it like?

Vijayan Swaminathan: So, I mean, like, so today in the world of Chat GPT I mean, like people I mean, it's, it's, it's a really a modern form of the software that it is. It's basically gathered and learned the information on that's available on the internet.

And it's basically to our information. Okay. Based on our request and be. Basically, interpret our language models and give whatever we want in a sense. But I think understanding software is more like understanding language and, and then these are the languages that is understand by the machines, right?

And then we want machine to do a certain thing for a piece of software for a For a piece of operating system that the phone that operating system that you have in your phones or your or in your laptop so all of this is like coded software So these are the languages that they're actually interacting with the processor and that is within within the computer and So I think when people are writing apps, apps, this is a general.

Okay. This is a new like uber is an app, right? I mean google maps is an app and these these map these apps are basically interacting You with the underlying operating system and help you to achieve something. Right. I mean, like Uber, for instance, like it's a really fascinating app. It's like magic.

You go anywhere, almost in the world right now. And like, you can go press a button and call a taxi and it becomes like magic. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's actually putting together Putting together puzzles and basically solving a problem. And that's how it works. I mean, even when we look at a client's problem example right now, we go we look at the problem where each business is different and unique.

And when we're able to connect the dots and then be able to optimize their business problem and optimize the solution, magic happens. And then, and they're able to see better performance, better sales, more productive employees, things like that for a business context. And similarly, if you're doing a product engineering, it's very similar.

What, what problem are we solving? And what, what dots are we going to connect? Right. So if you're able to connect the dots and software basically allows that to happen, to connect the dots. I mean, even today, our conference is happening and like 15 years back, like the, the remote conferencing was much in a nascent format.

It was on ads, ads that we have today. And then the streaming and the internet and everything. It's really evolved from, from from like the age of floppy disk you mentioned, right? I mean, like it is really evolved to a much better and optimized stage right now. So it's basically connecting the dots and what problem are you solving?

And let's say, I mean, I, I have the same admiration for any industry for, for anyone who's doing their work, right? Even if a tap is leaking and there's a pipe leaking, what do you do? So we go and replace the pipe or we go and put a plaster around it, go and fix the problem, right? Similarly is the software.

And like if you have, if something is broken or something, and we want to solve it, we go and solve it through the, through the software and the languages that we use. Like Python and C sharp and Java and these are the languages that the operating system and the the the operating systems and the apps that understand this language.

So sorry for getting into detail, but like that's, that's a long story short of of the background of software.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, because, because, you know, you hear about software developing, but like typically we just see the final product and we're like, Wow. How does this, how does this thing even work? Like Chat GPT is frigging amazing.

Like, honestly, it blows my mind that that's even something that we can do as humans, that we can create something that can hold so much knowledge and not only hold knowledge, but understand context, understand a phrase and what we mean by that phrase, which in multiple, even in different places, like you said, in Canada or in the United States, a phrase can mean two different things.

Like, yes, it's absolutely wild that we have technology like this. And there's people like you developing it. And I know that the moment we started talking about some of the stuff that XaddWell does, I'm like, wow, like, this is super, super impressive. I know we have lots of people listening who aren't really sure, you know, how to engage companies like XaddWell or like, At what point would they know that it makes sense to reach out to a company like yours to help them with with some type of software?

How do they even know that they might need a software? Can you maybe talk to some of the companies out there who are listening? How would we know when we need you?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Back in our conversation, we spoke about briefly in terms of like, they're in the toys business and they thought, okay, selling toys is their only business, but from a business point of view and then you need to continuously evolve if you want to be in business and compete in the marketplace.

Right. I mean, it's. It's, it's, it's not as scary as you think, but at the same time, when business starts innovating and have that aspiring need to grow then they start investing. I would say this is more of an investment for any business and looking at the Toy Stores journey. And then they, they basically went when they had to do the chapter level bankruptcy at some point, because like they didn't innovate at the right time.

And I often say technology adoption is no more a choice. It's more of a necessity right now. And I say that with. With with with conscious concern for these businesses, right? Because if you're not able to innovate and invest at the right time, it's it's very highly likely that that your competition might take over.

And same thing is what's happening with AI. I'll jump into the AI bucket in just a few moments, but I think. What does this need to understand? It's like look at examples like taxi versus Uber, right? Look at examples of the multiplex was Netflix. Look at examples of the retail banking versus like online banking, mobile banking, right?

So look at examples of like education versus the online courses that we're taking today and and look at the in person meeting versus the zoom calls that we're doing today. So I think that technology is evolving and and your business also should be evolving around the society, right? And If your business is so stuck still in 1970s maybe still it's, it's great.

But I think if, if you all, you can probably do 10 times, 20 times better than what you're able to do, or unfortunately some businesses might end up, ended up, end up being obsolete in probably like 10 or 15 years. So that's, that is sometimes unfortunate. And, and I think businesses need to start thinking about those areas.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Like, like you mentioned that businesses can get stuck. I think. I think the reason that they get stuck, Vijay, is because they don't know what to do. They feel lost. They only know how to do their business one way, right? And so, you know, how do we help those people, right? Like, for instance, you might have a whole bunch of solutions for a business that, as far as they're concerned, they're like, I don't know what to do.

Like, we've done it this way forever. We know that we've had customers for a long time. We know now that we're competing against Walmart. We're competing against one of these big block stores. But we don't know how to compete against them. Is it even possible?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah. So, I mean, like we, we were actually doing a proposal for a client.

And I, I, I wouldn't call out the name, but like, I think something that they were doing is they had recently 10 employees doing invoice processing. And then they would actually get invoices in their emails, and they would basically go through all their invoices, read them one by one, and then basically do a data porting work to a different ERP or CRM solution that they had within the company, and literally 10 people would do it, they're getting like 10, 000 invoices a month or something, and they would literally do it, they have 8 to 10 employees just doing that.

And they're probably spending around like 700, 000 or under a million, just like paying salaries for those 10 people. Right. I mean, that, that is something that can be automated. It's, it's, it's, it's no and then it probably, instead of spending a hundred, a hundred million dollars, and if it's a one time cost, probably you're spending 200, 000 or something like that.

And then if you're able to automate that, put a solution there and then the, you can, you can rather use their employees. Time probably to do something else, right? And then probably to, to take care of people. I mean, in the sense, like when I say take care of people, you can repurpose their time to do something more productive than doing this repeated work.

And, and they get super bored doing the same thing over and over again. Sure. And how can you put, put, put their brains to work for doing something, something else instead of doing this repeated work. And this is where automation comes in. And yeah, I mean, that is, that is one example I can give you. And like each business is very unique and there is no one size fits all for all businesses and there's another business where they're trying to automate in terms of the response time that they have with the communication.

How, how soon can they revert back their communication? Because if they have a lot of like pending communication that needs to happen, one person has to really look at the scenario and then actually communicate. So they have like, like hundreds of pending emails to be sent. And if we can look at that scenario and how we can automate and quickly get the response, so we are able to close the sales as soon as possible.

Right. So things like that. Yeah. And then I can speak for AI as well, but like, these are some, some things that each business has to look at in terms of like again, It's like, it's not a one size fits all and it's not a be all and all kind of thing. You need to innovate a kind of, but again, start thinking about take an option in a way that like compliments your business model and and then go from there.

Start with something small and like, then, then, then I think the innovation will happen and there's, and you can extend more things to that and putting a, you don't, you don't have to spend millions of dollars on day one. Probably spent with like started with a 50, 000 investment, a hundred thousand dollars and look at what is possible.

Right. I mean, a hundred thousand dollars today probably might save tens of millions of dollars in the next 10 years. I look at it, look at it from a long term perspective and then, and I think. I think it'll be a good, good plan.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, no, I like the way that you explain that, that it's like, it's, it's a small movement here or a small spend now can have a exponential value, an explosion of value to you in the future, right?

I agree with that. I think, I think companies that are not Looking to take advantage of every technological advantage that they can right now that they can afford to take on and keep in mind, I get it. We can't all afford it. That's fine. But if you can afford to take on a technological advantage, it pays dividends down the line in efficiencies.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah, it does. It does. And then I would, I wanna briefly touch upon the AI as an aspect. And AI is not something that, that you need to, like, fear upon or like, like there is nothing to be afraid because of, okay, that company is doing AI and there there's no they, they use the word FOMO right now. You don't have to like, fear of missing out actually.

And what happens is like, I'll take us back to the story of Priceless that happened like 20, 25 years ago, back in the dot com boom, when it happened in the early 90s, like the late 90s in the early 2000s, right? I mean, people would like jump on the train off of the internet and then try to different things.

Some companies did it. Some didn't do it right. Companies that did it always had an advantage, always had an edge. I think it's very similar to the age of A. I. right now. Tragedy chat. GPT alone is not A. I. You can have your own artificial intelligence created for your own business. And we'll and I think there are multiple ways to do it.

And then each business, if they have their own ways of making better decision making with the A. I. Why? Why do we need A. I. Right? One is probably automating. The other is better addition making right. And if you're able to, Make better decisions at a rapid speed and so waiting 10 days. We're able to take some addition in 10 minutes.

That that's that's that's a massive improvement. And business who can make that business optimization changes will always have an edge. So that's how I think you have to approach AI. And it's not that it's not a one size fits all again. I mean, like, how can you? I mean, I'll give I'll throw some examples in terms of air, let's say even at home, right?

So let's say I'm the shopper. I drive my family everywhere, wherever they go. Let's say the kids get ready on any, on a Monday morning or a Tuesday morning. So it gets ready. It's 8am in the morning. I have to go drop them in the school. So the moment I see my son I have to, I understand I have to go, I had to go get the car started.

And then I go. Go drop him in the school. Right? So let's say at 8 30, my wife comes and imagine I'm dropping her every day. And when I look at her and actually basically my sensory tells me that I have to go and drop my wife. Right? This is an intelligence that I'm using to basically divide. But let's say on a Saturday evening, I look at both.

Okay, now we have a different scenario. Both of them are trying to board the car. So where are we going? Okay. Maybe you're going to a dinner, having a rest, having dinner that night, right? So this is the intelligence that we use as humans. Likewise, in a business context, there'll be different areas of bottlenecks that you can solve.

Similarly with artificial intelligence just allowing you to make better decisions and optimizing your business every day.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I imagine too, though, those come with trial and error. Right? Because it's going to take time to learn what your scenarios are and how this works. And I think that's where people like you come in and really start to nail down those perfect scenarios and how to make the best optimal choice in each scenario.

Vijayan Swaminathan: We try, man. We try.

Kelly Kennedy: You know, one of the problems that I see right now, at least with the AI front, and especially with small business, is there's a lot of new programs coming out. There's a lot of new software, new subscription services. And I know, especially in my space in the podcasting space, it feels like there's a new app every single week that claims to do better than the others.

And it's really hard right now to navigate what is going to be the most efficient use. And I remember talking with you about this in our initial meeting, is that we live in a time where these things are popping up so quick, just like the dot com boom with like, everyone's coming up with a website, who's going to win.

That's what's happening in AI right now and with all these software programs, everyone's trying to get number one spot and it makes it really, really hard for an organization to make a choice and feel good about that choice. What kind of advice would you give to people right now who are maybe trying to find new softwares that can help them, but they're struggling because there's a lot.

Vijayan Swaminathan: So the number one thing is like, not all, all organizations are AI ready. Right. Because like how AI operates and how AI thrives is based on data. And if organization, if organizations are not collecting data, then you're not AI ready. Right. Without data, there's, there's no AI happening. And yeah, many, many of that, sorry for, sorry for the bad news on that front, because like, unless you're.

So the first step is to start capturing data what's happening at different points of your business. And if you're not already doing that, I think the first step is to baby step is to start getting that done in place. And then one, you have enough data, then how can we make sense out of it? How, what are the points that we can use to leverage and make decisions out of it?

And then, and, and, and then be very cautious when doing that. I mean, be a very, very sensitive in terms of like not to get into any of the privacy front offered, but at the same time, use the data to the business advantage and not to any, anyone's. Anyway, so we want to be cautious about that. So capture data first, be ready to capture data, and then, then start making better, better additions with the data and then how we can automate that decision making and how we can bring it into dashboards and fingertips.

Right. I mean, those are the different three or four stages that we would break it into. So data capturing data is the first step.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay, okay. You know, I want you to take us into, into XaddWell, right? You guys do a lot. You have a lot of services that you can provide. Before we get into the services, can you tell us about some of the projects you've worked on and are currently working on just so that the listeners can get a better understanding of what it is you do?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah. Yeah. Initially, initially, we were doing apps for restaurants, mobile apps, and we were doing very small level apps. And very soon, we realized, I think, the kind of projects that we want to get into is something that should be worthwhile for the business and for XaddWell as well in no offense to any other business or out there, but at the same time, it has to be worthwhile because we are literally putting resources out there, people out there.

Currently, we have a workforce back, back in India, because I'm originally from there. I'm trying to leverage it. And because if you're able to build at the rate of like what we built here in Canadian dollar or us dollar, it ends up being super expensive. And so we are trying to leverage that to keep an offshore and probably in the next couple of years or more.

Hopefully we will have an Edmonton presence at the XaddWell office and then more people working. But in terms of the project that we work on, and initially I was the one working on like, Like I mentioned, the Copenhagen project was done through XaddWell. The Enbridge project. Again, I was the solution architect was done through XaddWell.

And most recently we've got project from UK and then for over a year and a half now, so there's, there's an project on the fire domain that's happening. It's an embedded project. So that's, that's currently happening. So basically it's a modernization of the fire panel. All, all fire that we see in a building is all wired and we are trying to make that as a wireless and make it more reliable.

So that, and. So that's an embedded project that's happening. And and, and, and there's one other project that we are doing proposal on. So there are three or four projects that we're working on and one is on a virtual reality platform where it's, it's really cool where, where you can use the VR goggles and actually go and, and, and, and basically do different things with the VR in terms of, it's, it's more of in the nascent stage.

It's prototyping right now on the VR. So, but, but that's, that's coming out very well. And we are also. entering a digital marketing space besides everything that we do at XaddWell. So it'll be a sub brand of XaddWell. We're calling it Nova Media N O V A Media. So we'll be doing a launch for that very soon as well.

So, so actively, like actively we are trying to do different things, but we have around like, like seven to eight employees back in India and trying to help our clients here. So that's the thing. So the, Yeah, those are the current things that are in pipeline and there are many are in proposal stage as well.

And we are in digital marketing is something that we are approaching very soon as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. The VR space is so cool. I love VR. I think it's awesome. We bought the boys a PlayStation VR too. And so we ended up getting grand turismo seven and we were just checking that out. And I was loving it, but it makes me so sick.

I love it to death, but I can pick up one race before I'm done, but. I definitely see how the future of that is going to be huge. It's going to be absolutely massive. What is it like writing software for a VR program?

Vijayan Swaminathan: It is actually so there are two things to the VR. One is one is AR. AR is the augmented reality.

Like as he is, when we say the augmented reality, right? So it's basically bringing a digital form into the physical, into the physical world, like creatures and things like that, that you basically bring into the your physical world, that is the augmented reality world. And and it's fun. And like the other, well, VR is basically.

Completely recreating the, the virtual landscape, everything, every tree, every, every furniture you see, every image that you see is basically created from scratch. It actually takes more time than anyone would think. So it's like creating creating a virtual reality game or creating a virtual reality experience.

So everything that you see is basically created from scratch. So. AR is trying to merge with our current physical worlds. VR is basically transport us to an entirely different world into the digital space. So that's the difference between these two. And then there are some interesting options, like in some people are exploring in terms of like, we are dining, we, we, we, we got in touch with the company where they do, we are dining in Europe.

So where you can literally plug on your headsets and basically go to Arabia or like anywhere where we are dining and have a meal, right? And then, then the person sitting next to you probably will be having a meal at Vegas, right? I mean, it's, it's, yeah, options are unlimited.

Kelly Kennedy: We are living in the future.

Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, man. I, I, I love the VR stuff. I think it's so cool. And you know, the boys can play it, but yeah, I don't know. Like for me, it just makes me so overwhelmingly sick. I get like motion sickness and I'm just done for the night. But like, I'm hoping to God that they figure out a way to fix that.

Cause I think it's so rad.

Vijayan Swaminathan: And gaming is one other area that's, that, that, that we're exploring as well. And gaming and VR are like, like very close in terms of the platforms that we use in the unreal engine and unity. I mean, like it may not make. Any sense to the, to the viewer, but I'm saying like, they're very close in, in how we make those things.

That is one on the idea. The other example that I want to actually really shine some light on in terms of like how we are in terms of going back to the decision making point especially when we worked with the oil and gas company and like and it was an AI project and how we were able to learn some data from, from 50, 60 years ago without going too much into the, into the detail.

I mean, like the kind of impact that would bring to a solution provider or for a business, right. And. Basically, some of these like oil and gas pipelines are like runs across the country, across Canada, across us and like basically thousands of kilometers and miles long. And they are basically transporting oil, gas, and different kinds of like energy, energy needs.

Right. And some of these pipes are like really old, 50 years, 70 years, a hundred years old. And when some of these pipes break And the kind of insurance claim that comes sometimes are in millions. And in a few cases, they were in billions, actually 2 billion insurance claim was there. It was probably five or seven years ago.

So the damage is huge because the claim that comes from the landowners, the farmers, it's really huge. And we were able to really gather the data that's happening. So there is something called as an inline inspection that happens inside those. Oil and gas pipes, and we're able to capture all of that data.

When I say data, that's just how this is where AI makes a lot of sense. We're able to capture the data from the inline inspection happening in these pipes. And we're able to literally tell us like, okay, how, how is the burst pressure? How is the integrity of the pipe? And how, when does the, when does it require maintenance?

And in what areas, if there's a thousand kilometer line pipe, that's up, that's actually running across country. How do you know where to go and do the maintenance and when, right? So it's. Without having enough data, you cannot make addition on. So that is something we bought the addition making capacity to a dashboard through AI machine learning.

And that came out really well. I mean, like now they'll have, like, they can just send people okay. We have six months, six months of time. And like, we are going to probably send the maintenance engineer six minutes ahead of time, start doing the maintenance work and then make sure the pipe pipe was good and integrity is good.

So just giving an example, I mean, I just wanted to shine some light on that so that like people understand the. The real advantage of like making those stations are intact.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And that's a huge, huge advantage, right? Like before they would have to just guesstimate, go and dig up that portion of the line, you know, do thickness testing.

And you know what I mean? You might miss the piece that was, that was faulty anyway. And at least this way, it's like it's a smart way to do maintenance. I totally get that. That's awesome. And yeah, it makes me wonder what are the other applications around the world right now that are going to be automated in a very similar way that's going to save a lot of time and a lot of money for a lot of organizations.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Yeah. I mean, like, so recently I was in the conference called CES in the Vegas, one of the most popular tech conference. So they launched a new device called Rabbit. And I think it's a device that's probably 200 bucks. I think the value that it kind of brings, it's, it's more than a phone. So if you want, if you're about to go to London for a week and then London or Paris, anywhere in Europe and like plan a trip.

And then what are the, what are the five steps or seven steps that you would normally do? First is probably book the plane tickets. Then probably, okay, you're spending five to seven days. What are the sightseeing that you want to do? Some things that you want to do with family or, or, right? I mean, what are the things that you, so you have to do a lot of planning, right?

And imagine doing all of this in a matter of like two to five minutes, right? So you tell the device rabbit, Hey rabbit I'm taking my family four of us and we're going to London for a week. Make sure it's, it's in the downtown area. Plan some good trips with kids and some entertainment for, for the period here are the dates, make sure that the flights are cheap, do all of this.

And it was basically able to get, take all of this as input and give you some options and all you have to do is like approve, approve, reject, approve, reject. That's it. And once you approve your tickets are booked and all your entire itinerary is done in two to five minutes. Right. I mean, just giving an example.

So. That is, that is something beautiful to look at it, how you can save your time and, and, and process things even at like a day to day level.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, absolutely. What do you think, like the next five to 10 years looks like for us in this in this new world?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Next five to 10 years. So I mean, like there's a lot of talk about like, so the good things and bad things, right?

I mean, people say there'll be a lot of job losses and things like that. So there's truth to it. And there's also not. I mean, like there's a myth around it as well, actually. Yes. There'll be a lot of like redundant jobs that, that are not going, that are going to be obsolete at some point. And and then there'll be some new, new types of jobs as well.

And overall, I think we'll, we'll have, we'll get to spend more. quality time on the things that we want to spend, right? I mean, like, let's say if you're able to do the lawn cutting by ourselves, if there's a robot doing, already there's a vacuum cleaner that's doing the vacuum cleaning within the house.

It wouldn't be too late to have like, like, like a lawn mower that is automated. Things like that. And I would say, I think if you're able to spend more time that, that matters to you in a way, I mean, instead of like commuting back and forth, two hours and two hours back and forth, I look at this podcast, how we are doing it, right?

I mean, we are saving a ton of time with this. That's like, we are not doing the commute and all that. And I would say there'll be a lot of automation happening over a lot of like tech advances, but at the same time, from a quality of life perspective, I think people I think people need to also understand the understanding of like.

I, I think to, to really look at what serves them good and look at the purpose and, and, and I think look at it that way because many things will get automated and and it's, is it going to make life or hard? It's a real question, but I would urge people to start looking at the reality as it is and yeah, not get stuck in

any ideology because it will not serve them good. Yeah, I mean, I, I don't wanna get too, too much into it, but at the same time I see a lot of people struggling into the, into the golden of, within the nine to five thing. So I think you really need to break. I mean, if, for me, comfort zone basically threatens me, the two, the two, when I get too much comfortable, I shake it and make sure I get outta it right?

So, I mean, comfort zones should scare people. And if you are too comfortable. I've been working in this form for 20 years. I cannot imagine they laid me off, right? I mean, don't get comfortable like that. So I would, I would say, learn, learn new things and see what you can do. Not just entrepreneurially, even if you're able to do something and from a work point of view I mean, you can, it's not late for anyone to change careers as well.

So think on those lines and, and then. And yeah, the tech companies always, I would say being in the tech space, I have, because I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't think all tech, all companies have the best of intentions, but at the same time, look out for yourself, see what you can do. And you know, where the things are going, right.

You know, the chat GPT is coming and how you can, you know, Change the next generation. If maybe you have kids, what can they learn and how can they be ready for the, and if they're still going to do this traditional college education, maybe it's not going to help them. Right. I mean, yeah, I would, I would process it at, at different levels, at your level, at your children level.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's a, I think it's really hard to tell, you know, what's going to be in demand in five to 10 years for sure. I agree completely. I think, yeah, like basic things like healthcare workers and things like that are always going to be in demand, but I think that things can be shook up so hard and so quickly in the next little bit.

Yeah, you're gonna have to think twice and you need to make sure that whatever you're doing definitely has some human component, isn't redundant, requires some actual thinking and some you know, some, some human to human interaction. I think that's pretty safe. I think, I think the business development world will change in the fact that Our access to information will change the way that we utilize information will change.

But human to human relationships are always going to be important. Being able to build trust in person is always going to be important. And that was actually one of the reasons I really wanted to have you on the show today because I do notice that on LinkedIn, you are incredibly active. As a networker, you're always in a meeting.

You're always at lunch with somebody. Talk a little bit about the strategies that you've used to grow your business.

Vijayan Swaminathan: So, I mean, Ken and I were talking the other day in downtown and we had a really good lunch. And and then Ken, I mean, it's traditional in terms of like the marketing and things like that.

One is getting the word out, of course. And, and it's traditional, it's like cold calling and sending those cold emails and stuff like that. I mean, it's, it's, It works, but at the same time, it doesn't really work as well. I mean, I get a thousand emails a day, I mean, from, from different businesses and other things, like, so it's, people don't really pay attention to emails as much.

And like, how many calls are we ignoring today? Right. I mean, we get a ton of calls and how many texts are we ignoring today? So that doesn't really, it's not actually working. What really works is this kind of conversation, right? I mean, like. How soon are, how frequently are we having the in person conversation?

And, and, and, and, and, and Ken, Ken, Ken explains beautifully when I'll borrow his words. I mean, we are trying to do everything to go around the person and not actually meet with the person. So I, I, I believe in what Ken said. So I think very true. I mean, I think we have to make every effort to go like, try and meet that person, if, if, if you cannot do it in person, at least try to do a zoom call or a team's call, so I think that will help.

So I think having that real connection, the way I approach it is like relationships first and sales is my last, right? I would, I would, yeah, I would still maintain that relationship. And if it's because when you, when you make all your conversation about sales, sales is not going to happen. So I think relationships matter.

So that's, that's, that's my way of looking at things. And I'm a very different person. Otherwise, in terms of like, I don't really value the things that many people other otherwise value. And then, and then, Hey, something, Hey, you're a CEO. I mean, I, I, today I wrote a post like titles don't really matter because it doesn't really matter actually, because once you step outside your office building or wherever you're from.

Right. No one really cares, right? I mean, you're a person, right? Whether he's a CEO or a director or a VP, end of the day, he's, he or she is a person, and if we're able to understand that person and the person and the person has emotions and values, if we're able to connect on those emotional values, I think that's what matters.

So that's, that's, that's how I do it. I try to build real friendship and a long term relationship with the people I meet.

Kelly Kennedy: Me and you very much share the same views and values. They're a hundred percent. You know, it's funny. I talk on this show all the time. You know, you may not be familiar with our show structure, but every Wednesday we do a business development show, which is usually me giving some type of business development advice.

And it always kind of funnels down back to that one thing. It's yeah, we do a lot of things in the business development journey, but that journey is always leading to a meeting. And so like, I think what ends up happening is like you said, people We'll do everything but that most important part, which is ask for the meeting.

Yes. Right? We'll, we'll email them, we'll phone them, we'll send them, you know, texts or whatever else. We'll send them all the LinkedIn messages and all of our advertisements. But the most critical thing in the whole process is all of those things should be leading to a point where you can say, Hey, let's grab a lunch, or hey, let's grab a coffee, or hey, let's have a Teams call.

Right. We can't forget that we can't lose sight of the goal. And I think so many businesses do. And it's not that they've lost sight of it. I think that there's a genuine fear to meet new people. And I hope with this show, I hope with this show over time, we're able to help alleviate some of that fear.

Vijayan Swaminathan: It is very simple. I mean, two words, just humanize it, right? I mean, like don't remove the human element out of it, just humanize it. They're also fellow humans, right? I mean, like, And you humanize it, they understand. So it's, it's that simple, actually.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, Vijay, you're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs, my friend.

There's a lot of people listening right now that are either on the fence about starting a business or they have just started a business. They're afraid. Dude, you came to this country and you just started a business a month later. Give them some inspiring tips. Give them some words. What would you say to them?

Vijayan Swaminathan: I would say just start. I mean, you, you have to learn it. And the sooner you start and then the younger you are, it is better. Don't get stuck into any of these like left, right. All these ideologies. Yes, they do exist. I mean, they're good and bad to both of it. And like, I would, I would say just start. And like, and when you're, when you're on the journey, I think the real purpose is the journey.

Right. I mean, people say, okay, purpose is probably, it's probably somewhere down in the hill or somewhere. It's going to be there. I think the journey is the purpose. I mean, if, and if you enjoy the journey, I think it's going to be beautiful. And I would say I, I, I've been on, on this thing. I did a lot of things.

I did a lot of mistakes, which have that met my, so I think everyone will go through that learning path. And then I think the sooner you start is better. And none of this matters. No, you're, you're. I'll say this again, doesn't matter where you're from. Doesn't matter what your races were. Doesn't matter what your skin color is.

None of this matters. All that matters is your effort and what, what you did. That's, that's all that matters. And if you're able to meet some push and make, make a client, that's it. So that that's all it is. Any product or service. That, that you're trying to offer just, just, just, just humanize it as much as possible.

Talk to the people. That's all it takes. So I'm, I'm, I'm on the journey myself, so I'm really, I'm really enjoying the process myself. So I would allow and invite other people to also enjoy this journey for themselves as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, I agree. I'm, I'm on the journey too.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Is it, is it same, is it same with you? I mean, like?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. Right. We're all on this journey. And we were all only experts until yesterday. Tomorrow is a brand new day. We can't stop learning. We have to learn consistently and continuously. And I think the best thing that we can do is just support each other. And so, you know, my goal with this show is to support our entrepreneurial community as best as I can.

And I know that I think that most entrepreneurs feel the same way. We understand that. We're all linked. We're all part of a big cog that moves forward, and the best thing that we can ultimately do is help the next generation, help the next person, because at the same time, we're helping ourselves.

Vijayan Swaminathan: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then if there's anyone that needs any help, please feel free to reach out. It doesn't have to be only business all the time. If you need any help, just DM me or like reach out to Kelly. So I will be glad to help and I can share any, any, any inputs or suggestions that I, that I can that or any way I can help.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you provided a ton of great information. And I know that there's a lot of people listening that are like, Hey, you know what? We need some software developed. How the heck do we get ahold of Vijay?

Vijayan Swaminathan: Please reach out to our website, XaddWell.Com. X A D D W E L L .com. It's XaddWell.Com.

Or write an email to sales@xaddwell.com. I'm available on Twitter. I'm available on LinkedIn. Yeah, my DMs are open. Just reach out. I'd be happy to help.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Amazing. This has been episode 120. We've been graced with Vijayan Swaminathan. Founder and CEO of XaddWell. It was an absolute pleasure having you Vijay.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Vijayan Swaminathan: No, no, no. True pleasure. Kelly. Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this thing and taking your time. I totally enjoyed our conversation. We should meet more often, man. We should, we should, we should try and meet in person. I totally enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much.

Kelly Kennedy: I look forward to meeting you as well. Until next time, this has been episode 120 of the business development podcast, and we will catch you on the The flip side.

Outro: This has been the business development podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation. And business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.