Just go for it! with Mckinley Hyland

Just go for it!

Intro: The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more. This is the Business Develop Development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners. CEOs and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business, brought to you by Capital Business Development Capitalbd.ca. Let's do it. Welcome to the The Business Development Podcast. And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: All right. Welcome to the Business Development Podcast. Today we have our very first interview Mckinley Hyland, the president of Maverick NDT Inspection out of medicine hat Alberta. He's been working in the NDT field since 2011. His passion for NDT led him to start his own company in 2018.

His innovation and dedication to the industry has earned him a reputation of trustworthiness and reliability. McKinley, how are you today?

Mckinley Hyland: Good, man. Thanks for having me.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for for coming onto the podcast today, and I'm hoping that we can deliver some really valuable information for our listeners.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: You want to tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about Maverick NDT Inspection and kind of what what led you to start that company?

Mckinley Hyland: Sure. I started Maverick NDT in 2018. When I first started it was, it was mostly just I wanted to be a subcontractor. I didn't think that or I, I guess I, I didn't think that it was gonna lead to this at first or this soon.

This was always the end goal was to, was to own my own company outright and, and service my own clients and stuff. But yeah, we I just decided that that now was the right time rather than wait forever. And, and here we are.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, man, I totally understand that. I same thing with capital, right? I, you know, us business owners, we get into this and we don't even know really what we're getting into.

We're kind of jumping into it with both feet, with hopes and dreams and just hoping that people will love what we do. And I think we're all a little bit surprised when people people inevitably do love what we do, especially if we show up to it with passion. And like with what you're doing with innovation, you know, you can really shake things up.

It's a, it's a scary situation to be in in the beginning. And I think I think that's something that I like to kind of reiterate to my listeners is that if you're on the fence about, about starting a business, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you just jump, jump into it and with your hopes and dreams.

And for the most part, I think they do tend to be well received, especially if you're dedicated and committed to the, to to the end goal.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, no doubt. I think my biggest my biggest point. On that would be that there's never the right time to start a business. You can wait and wait for the perfect time.

There isn't one. It's, it's never gonna be the right time. So if, if you're, if you think that you're ready to do something or you think that you have something special or you're willing to, to put in the work, then you should just get after.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. You hit the nail in the head.

The, the secret to being successful at anything is to not let naysayers hold you back. It's not to sit around and kind of wait and see what happens, because if you're, if you wait for the right time, the right time will never come. The right time will never come. There will never be the perfect day. Just like McKinley said, there will never be the perfect time for you to start your business.

The secret is just to give it your, give it your all. Jump into it and do it your way. Don't do it the way that other people are doing it. Don't do it the way that people are trying to tell you to. Do it the way that feels right for you, because most of the time, if you're doing that, you are paving the way for, for future generations and for future innovation.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, absolutely. Man, I I couldn't agree more.

Kelly Kennedy: And I want to jump into future innovation with you. And the reason being, I am, I am, you know, in our conversations, you know, you came back, you came to me just with some questions about kind of how to grow your business just over LinkedIn. Like, what was that like about a month ago now, right?

Yeah, I think two months ago, something like that. Yeah, I guess, I guess time is flying, isn't it? Time is flying and you know, we kind of just went back and forth, you know, I didn't really give you anything that was proprietary. I just kind of let you know like, hey, like these are some suggestions I would make if I was you, just to kind of try things out.

And I think for the most part you've implemented them, you've been having some success in that, and that's awesome. I'm really, really proud of you for that. Yeah, man. It it's scary that, that the business development side of things is the scary part cuz you really gotta put yourself out there and I did not, I I still don't love doing the, the BD thing myself.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. It's, it's not, no, I definitely wouldn't choose it for a career path for myself, that's for sure. But God bless everyone that does.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, we're a special breed of SPD people. We really are. But you know what? It's a passion. It's a passion. If you do bd, you're probably incredibly passionate about it.

It's probably what you're driven to do. I wake up every morning McKinley, knowing I'm doing my purpose. I'm doing exactly what I was put on this earth to do. And I think that that's a really cool place to be. It took me a long time to kind of realize it. The funny thing about business development, McKinley, Nobody goes to school and is like, I can't wait to be a business development rep.

Nobody does. That's just never, you go to business school or you could go do whatever you're gonna do thinking, you know, you'll be an operations manager, you'll run a company, but like one day it just kind of comes up and bites you in the ass and you're like, wow, like this was available. This was a, this was a like a job within a company.

Cuz it is, it is probably one of the best jobs in a company if you're good at it.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Well, and I think that that's a thing, right, is if. Everybody that loves their job is usually good at it. So yeah you guys are a special breed, no doubt. And, and I think that, like I said, if, if anything that, any job that somebody has that they love, it's 99% of the time it's cuz they're good at it.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. No, I, I do agree. And it's like, it takes time, right? I didn't start out good at this job. Ironically, I'm actually a bit of an introvert. You know, when I came into this, it used to scare the crap outta me. The idea of sitting down and making like 25, 30, 30 cold calls or like sending a bunch of cold emails or even like even going to meetings with people I didn't know.

It took me a while to kind of get used to it. It is definitely a learnable skill, which I think you are learning cuz you're doing a lot of your own marketing at the moment. You can learn to be good at this, but, , you know, it does take time, it takes effort and it takes repetition.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. I think the, the hardest thing for me in the beginning was like the fear of getting the nos.

I, I, I hate, I'd rather somebody just not answer me. You know, like, just don't answer the phone call, don't call me back. But when they call you back and they're like, yeah, sorry, we're not buying what you're selling, that, that really stings, you know?

Kelly Kennedy: Oh yeah!

Mckinley Hyland: But I think. It wasn't even really with time. It was like after the first one it was kind of like, oh, well that wasn't so bad. And, and the other thing is, is like when you believe in what you're marketing, like I, I truly believe in, in the service that we provide, and I truly believe that we can do it better. And so, It hurts that I can't get that across to certain people or that I, I wasn't able to get it across on that phone call or I wasn't able to get that meeting, that it kind of stings sometimes, but I'm not really scared of getting the no's now because I think that at some point someday those people are gonna end up calling back and they're gonna want the services that we provide.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think too, like, you know, like NDT has really been the same for a long time. You know, for my listeners who don't know, I spent about nine years in the inspection industry. So I'm, I mean, I'm actually incredibly familiar with what McKinley does. I'm also really, really familiar with visual inspection and that sort of thing as well.

But that industry has not had a shake up in a very, very long time. I would say like it's probably been about 10 years since there's been a serious innovation in, in quality and in, in. And McKinley is shaking things up a little bit on that front. I don't know. McKinley, do you wanna speak a little bit to kind of what Maverick is doing to to kind of change the game a little bit?

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, we can touch on it. I just I guess I'm, I'm kind of a younger guy in this industry so. Over the last, like, I think six years ago, C G S B, which is our governing board for who holds our, our certifications, like we're certified through C G S B. They decided that. We needed to re-certify after X amount of years.

So that kind of pushed a lot of the older, older guys out of it. And, and the ones that didn't really get pushed out, they're, they never really got used to doing the paperwork on the computer. They're not tech savvy guys. I mean, these guys have been doing handwritten reports for, you know, however many years at this point.

And lots of 'em just didn't stick with it. Like with. With technology, as technology started to increase in our industry, they just kind of did the bare minimum to get by. And we've, we recently implemented or, or created a reporting system that uses artificial intelligence to, to create our reports.

And, and not even just for the older guys, but for, for the young guys like me, like we used to spend anywhere between 30 to 50% of our day doing paperwork. And what AI has done for us is, is now we spend, you know, at most 15% of our time doing, doing reporting. And the rest of it is actually. Doing the physical inspections, which, which creates a lot higher productivity for us.

We've implemented it with, with a couple different methods but we still have a little bit of a ways to go, but I'm gonna keep with it and we're just gonna keep, keep growing and, and keep doing these things as, as we can.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. No, I think it's a huge deal. And the fact that you know, like, congratulations by the way on, on taking that initiative because there's a lot of companies that are afraid to take steps like that.

And like you said, I think it takes us younger generation to step in and say, you know what? We're doing things good, but I think we can find some efficiencies to do things better, to, to change the industry. And I think what you're doing is 100% going to change the industry in time.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. I mean, the, the biggest reason why we did it is.

Well, my stepdad, he's he'll be 65 this year. He's terrible on the computer. , like, absolutely horrid. And I've been doing his reports for him and then I just send it to him and he signs 'em, and if everything's right, he signs 'em and, and then hands to his client. And I just thought there's gotta be like an easier way to do this for him where I don't have to do it.

he literally just has to basically tell the reporting system what he wants it to do and it does it for him. And yeah. So that's why I did it. It was more like just to save me some time and it's, it's really worked out the Yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing, man. I, I'm super excited to to get it out there and start, and start utilizing it more and more with, with our clients.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And like for the people kind of listening to this call that aren't really familiar, the reporting for, for non-destructive testing and visual inspection used to take a considerable amount of time. It would take, you know, a bare minimum, I would say, two hours on average to do, to do your reporting after your day's work.

So if you can find ways to cut that out, you know, utilizing AI or utilizing technology, just think like, you know, the savings over time for a client is exponential and yeah, just congratulations McKinley, for, for kind of being ahead of, ahead of your time on this and for for taking that initiative with your company.

I think it's gonna be a huge game changer for you.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, I wouldn't even say that. It's ahead of our time. I think that this has been, it's, it's well overdue actually. I just don't think anyone's done it. And yeah, and I did. So here we go.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. No, you're, you're absolutely right. It's like, it's, it's not ahead of the time, but, you know, just given, given, you know, the history of non-destructive testing, it's changes is slow and yeah, it takes a, it takes some guts to do what you've done.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Well, we'll see how it goes.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. So tell me a little bit of some of the challenges that you faced getting your business off the ground. You know, starting in 2018, especially moving into Covid, you know, you're probably just getting your ground, your footing after two years, and then Covid hit.

What was that like?

Mckinley Hyland: You know, we were j just as Covid hit, I was getting ready to expand and start scaling up and, and lucki. , I hadn't really made any moves yet. We were like right on the cusp, like probably weeks away from, from making a considerable investment. And luckily we didn't because it, you know, and it would've been no fault of our own, but it, it probably wouldn't have panned out well

But yeah, so we kind of just hung on during Covid. I just kind of, it was a one man show type deal. And then yeah, just over the past 12 months or so, here we've. , we kind of went on our own and, and we still do subcontracts for other NDT companies. Like we go out and you know, other NDT companies have contracts and they'll just hire us to go, to go fulfill them or to service those contracts.

But we've started to, to chase our own contracts to directly with, with clients and, and I guess the main challenge is just Dealing with, dealing with the people that don't think that you should do it. I guess my my family is super supportive, so I don't want to come off like they're not. But you know, moms, they just wanna see you do well and they don't wanna see you fail.

And, and so my mom was super terrified that, that this wasn't gonna pan out well for me. She's just worried, you know, we had just bought a house and, and she didn't want me to take on too much debt and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, mm-hmm. . I guess that was the one thing that was really tough for me was to just kind of put that in the back of my mind and say, you know what, mom, I'm gonna do it anyway.

So . Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I totally, I totally hear you. You know, it's like our loved ones, they want the best for us. And sometimes it can be scary and I think, you know, I mean, I think in the back of their mind they've seen so much failures and you know, I mean, whenever you start a business, there's a solid chance you won't make it.

Sure. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. , right. Because there's just, there's, you know, justice, all of a, of a chance that you do make it and you're incredibly successful. I do. I do think that if you're driven and you really care about what you're doing and you're willing to put your heart and soul into it, you will be successful.

I, I truly believe that. I think, I think you can almost will it to happen, if you know what I mean.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. I guess my, like the one thing I said to, to my mom was she said, well, do you think now is the right time? And like we touched on earlier in the podcast here, When is the right time? Like, you know, when's the right time to take that risk?

When's the right time to take a second mortgage on your house? You tell me like, when's the best time to do this ? I don't know, like, I'd rather do it. You know, eight or 10 years into my working career than eight or 10 years before I want to retire. Like, I, I'd rather lose it all now than tomorrow, you know?

Kelly Kennedy: Well, that's, that's right. That's right. At least right now, if you fail, you know, you, it's not gonna destroy you where, yeah. Like you said, you, if you fail in your fifties or your late forties, you know, you might not be able to recover from that.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. I think. I can come back from this if something, you know, if, if it all went to shit today, I could come back from this.

So absolutely, and that's, that's kind of what I had to tell myself. And, and yeah. Here we are. We're doing, we're doing good. I'm excited.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And like, one of the things, I just wanna reiterate this, what McKinley said, you're better off to fail early. If you're on the fence right now of starting your own business or you know, you're kind of scared or you got, you know, you got a, you got a great day job, but it's not what you're passionate about.

Take the plunge. Take the plunge. Because you know, the older you get, the harder it's gonna be for you to take that chance. The more risk you are going to be taking on. And if right now you have a passion, you have an idea. Go for it. Go for it. Like, you know, you're going to regret not doing it if you wait.

And so just my suggestion is if you're on the fence, you know, my, my business development people, my entrepreneurs, my, you know, my my you know, technical people, just jump for it. Just go for it and see what happens, because I think you will be pleasantly surprised, especially if it's your passion.

I think you will be successful.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, I would, I would back that statement up a hundred percent. I, I don't think there's ever, I, I've said it before. I'll say it again. There's, there's no better time than right now.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. So, McKinley, tell me a little bit about, you know, what was, what it was like to get your business off the ground?

How, what was your marketing strategy when you kind of first incorporated? Was it just kind of like you said, going with going with existing NDT companies and kind of hopping on board or you know, first off, you know, how did you get your name out there? Where, where did you start? .

Mckinley Hyland: Well, like I said, I've been in this industry since 2011.

So I, I have lots of industry like contacts. And so I guess what it was for me in the beginning was, is and it's hard to say this without coming across like nobody else cares as much as I do, but I just found that there was a big lack of, of people or technicians who, who cared about their job, who really actually loved what they did.

And most of 'em, it was just a paycheck. Yeah. And for me it was a paycheck too. I mean, this industry's put food on my table for for my family forever. And so it, it is a paycheck for me too, but it's more than that. I, I,

Kelly Kennedy: mm-hmm.

Mckinley Hyland: I like it. I, I love this industry. I love inspection. . And so yeah, I, I started out as just a subcontractor and, and I had lots of industry contacts, so I never really had a problem getting work.

And like I said, my stepdad is also in this industry. He's a subcontractor as well. He actually had his own full-blown NDT company that he started with two other guys, I think in 2007. And then ended up just selling out in 2009 or 2010 and went back subcontracting. And so I guess, yeah, I just decided that it was something I was gonna do and yeah, I did it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. No. So, you know, in some ways you kind of had some, you kinda had some help, right? Like your dad probably stood beside you and gave you advice and kind of let you know his mistakes so that you didn't repeat them. That's incredibly valuable.

Mckinley Hyland: Well, it would be valuable, but he did not do any of that

My, my dad did not, did not give, my dad's the kind of guy that he doesn't want to tell you what to do. If he's wrong, then he thinks it's his fault. So if he just doesn't say anything then it can't be his fault. And so , he, he has given me some advice here and there but it was never anything like, oh, I would make sure I did it this way, or any of that stuff.

He's just more like, you know, be careful with your money and, and don't go too heavy into this and, and make sure. You know, he, he's been good that way. But in terms of like financially helping or, or helping me out with clients, stuff like that not too, too much. I mean, he's a subcontractor too, so he does have his own clients, which does kind of help me out a little bit.

But not, not substantially.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I can understand that. I could understand wanting to kind of let you, let you do it your way. I don't know. I don't know if me as a dad would be able to do that, but it's you know, I commend him a little bit for letting you do that. I think, I think as a parent, you just want your kid to succeed, right?

So I feel like, I feel like I would be like, Hey, you should probably do it this way. Or like, are you doing this? It's like, I would probably talk too much.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. And Yeah, I give 'em all the credit, man, because it's gotta be terrifying to, to sit by and just watch, watch your child do some, some crazy stuff.

You know, I remember when I told him I was gonna invest in this, in this reporting software and, and he asked me what it was gonna cost, and he, he was, it was just silence on the phone, . And and he, it, it took him like probably 30 seconds and finally he was like, oh, it's. Sounds like a good idea, , and you can just hear his voice shaking.

But yeah, now that he's seen it, he's like, man, that was smart. You know, but he, he didn't he didn't, he didn't say too much when I first told him what we were gonna do, so,

Kelly Kennedy: That's right. Yeah. Well, that's it, right? It's it's always a risk until you see what happens. But you know how o you know, just in your experience, how often have you taken a risk and it totally panned out versus just blew up in your face?

Mckinley Hyland: You know, I, I guess I've never done anything super crazy like, you know, it's all or nothing on this. If this doesn't work, then we're then we're in trouble. But usually, you know, if, if you take a calculated risk nine times outta 10, it works out. I think, sure, there's been times where I've done some stuff and it definitely didn't work out.

But it was never like, make or break.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, totally. I totally get that. You know, I've been, I've been incredibly, incredibly lucky in my life and I think you know, there were a lot of situations that could have went incredibly poorly and didn't, and I'm very thankful. I definitely feel like I got some people upstairs looking out for me.

But yeah, I would say more often than not in my experience, that if you're on the fence about something and, you know, taking the leap, I, I would say most of the time it pans out. So don't be afraid to take a leap.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, no doubt. It, it, I. , you know, this does take a little bit of luck. Like, it, it, mm-hmm.

it does take a little bit of luck. You know, there's been times where some things have happened and it's just like, I don't know how that panned out the way it did, but there was some luck involved there. But you also, it, it's not all luck. It takes hard work and dedication and, and if, if you're willing to, if you're willing to work hard and you think that you got something, I think you should go for it.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. And you know, just to reiterating on McKinley's point, , you gotta put in the work, right? If you want something to succeed, you gotta work for it. But if you're motivated and it's your passion and it drives you, it won't feel like work. You know, like I think quite regularly, especially right now, like I'm operating capital business development, so I have, you know, I just hired an employee.

I'm doing, you know, full-time contracts five days a week. and I'm trying to handle this podcast, promote this podcast, you know, bring on guests and, you know, and edit, edit and produce. And by the time you factor in all this, you know, like right now, man, my days are probably like 15, 16 hours of work every day.

But the way that I look at it is if I put in the hard work now, it's gonna pan out down the road and you know, I'll only get better at it. So, Work. It does. It does take work. But I'll tell you what, if you put in this work, it's gonna be worth it. Especially if it's something you're passionate about. And I think especially if it's your own business, cuz you know you're building your own future.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree a hundred percent.

Kelly Kennedy: So tell me a little bit, McKinley about what your daily routine looks like. You know, how do you, how do you kind of do this on a day-to-day basis? How do you motivate yourself in the morning? You know, what's, what is, what is the president routine that just gets you motivated, gets you kicked off for the day, and helps you to deliver day in, day out?

Mckinley Hyland: You know, man, I don't have like a set routine. I, I guess there's, there's a couple things that I do daily but. nothing. There's, there's no like, set routine for me. I guess the, the number one thing that's helped me with kind of being able to handle all the stresses of this I, I give myself like 10, 15 minutes every morning when I wake up.

I don't, I don't look at my phone. I just, just leave it on the counter, go have a coffee. Usually I'm up before anyone in the house is up or, or I'm in a hotel or whatever. And yeah, I give myself 10, 15 minutes and then once I, once, once that time is up or I finish my coffee, whatever, I'll check my emails real quick and then and then I sit down again for about five minutes and just, I decide kind of what I want to get done that day, what it's gonna take for me to kind of, you know, go to bed happy. And then I just get to work. You know, obviously stuff happens throughout the day and, and you gotta deal with it as it comes up. And, and, you know, probably once or twice a week, I don't, I don't get everything done that, that I had told myself I wanted to get done. But, the other, the other four days a week usually I have everything done, you know, before lunch. So yeah, that, and then the other thing I do is every single, every single night I I have a 20 minute bath. I don't know. It sounds cheeky, but that's my me, no, that's my me time, man. I need it. I yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: And you know what, dude, I'm gonna echo you.

I am a huge fan of baths and you know what, maybe, maybe we're a little weird cuz we're dudes and we like baths, but I'll tell you what they There's nothing quite like unwinding, you know what I mean? I watch a lot of like educational YouTube videos. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and for me to be able to like just go in there and just have that alone time away from the craziness of family life.

It truly is important. I feel like, and it, you know what? I, I don't feel embarrassed about it whatsoever. It is, it has been a huge benefit in my life.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, man, I I, I don't even take my phone in there. I, same thing. I leave my phone on the bedside table and, and I just go sit in the bath for usually 20 minutes like it's, and.

It just gives me time to kind of think about what's happened throughout the day and then kind of gives me a little bit of a jump on what I want to get done tomorrow. But yeah, like you know, family time is super important. Mm-hmm. and you need time for your business, but you also need time for yourself.

That's something that I learned. . The hard way is that if you don't give yourself your own, like give, give yourself some me time, it, you'll fall apart, man. It it doesn't take long for your mind to eat away at itself. Mm-hmm. and so mm-hmm. . Yeah. And you know, if, if a bath isn't your thing or a shower's not your thing, maybe you should try meditating.

I, I don't know. And the, I, I would just a hundred percent say that. Doesn't matter if you're a business owner or not, or anybody. I think anybody should have like their own 15, 20 minutes a day to just sit down and hang out by themselves.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think especially like just reiterating your point as a family, you know, family life is crazy.

It's hectic, you know, you're dealing with insane amounts of stress. And like as a business owner too, it's like, just pile it on, right? Because as a business owner, doesn't matter whether you got a family or not, you're already under a lot of stress. You know, you got a lot riding on you and then you factor into that.

You know, your kids and your, you're your're know, your fiance, your wife needs you to. And yeah, it, it can be, it can be like, there's just not enough time to go around. And like, I know for me, especially, like I, I regularly have times where like I just have to take a step back because I'm feeling incredibly anxious.

Like I'm feeling like I can't settle down. And yeah, sometimes for me it's like, yeah, have that bath, maybe go for that walk, you know, just have, go for a drive. Have just some you time. But yeah, it, it can be incredibly hard to balance life nowadays. There's a lot going on, and especially for us business owners.

You know, the pressure's high and you have to find a way to to outlet yourself.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, like you were saying, you know, like sometimes you just, you get so anxious that you have to take a step back. I think that that's, like, that's key. Those are the times where you don't want to be making rash decisions, you know?

Those are the times where you need to, you need to step back and go, okay, I gotta think about this for 10 minutes. I gotta just hang out and just really consider my options here because when, when everything's on fire, you want to try and put it out, but you know, sometimes you're trying to put it out with gasoline.

So, mm-hmm. , yeah. Taking that, taking that step back and, and just relaxing that nine times outta 10, that's gonna do you a huge favor.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah no, I, I I couldn't agree more. So I want to just move forward a little bit into the business development kind of side of things. Just kind of wanna ask you, I think a lot of my listeners are entrepreneurs for the most part.

They, most of 'em I think, are new. I think there's a lot of, you know, we're a mix of it all. I think we have, we have new entrepreneurs, we have, you know, long-term entrepreneurs that are just looking for some tips or some help or maybe a new strategy. And I think there's a lot of perspective that we can have in these interviews because I think, you know, you might do things a little differently than me and you can bring that perspective.

To my, to my, my show and, and to my listeners, and I think it's incredibly valuable. So can you tell me a little bit about like, you know, before, what were you utilizing for business development systems? Are you currently utilizing a CRM or anything like that?

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah so actually you told me about Pipedrive.

So I have started to utilize Pipedrive a a little bit. Sure. You gotta remember, I'm not trying to. Like sell socks to 8 million people. I'm, I'm trying to sell. Okay. I'm trying to sell my services to a select group of, of, and and there's plenty of clients out there. It's not like there's only five out there that I'm trying to sell to.

But there's, there's a select group of people. So I am using Pipedrive, but I'm also just going. Just networking with the people that I wanna work with. Like yeah, I'm not going after clients that I don't think I can add value to. It's, it's not that I don't wanna work for them, it's just I don't think that what we're, what my business or what my company does is going to be.

Any more beneficial than some of the other NDT companies out there? There's certain NDT companies that are, are gonna be able to do the exact same thing, you know, on a, we'll just say like a this is hard to explain for your listeners if they don't know what we're talking about. But, you know, if you're sitting around waiting to shoot one tie in on a pipeline we don't really have a benefit there.

You know like. We're gonna be just as good as the next guys in nine times out of 10. Because when you're only doing, when you're inspecting one weld, it's, you have lots of time to do your paperwork prior to or whatever. So we're just really focusing on going after clients that we know we can, we can help.

And so yeah, we've been using Pipedrive, but, but mostly just going after select clients at a time. Like I'll, I'll pick three or four clients that I, that I wanna focus on this week. And those are the ones that I, that I focus on trying to connect with. Networking and then having meaningful conversations with them, not just, Hey, this is me, this is what I do.

Call me if you have some work. You know? , I wanna get to know these people. I want to get to know what kind of issues they're having. And so that's what I've been doing.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And absolutely. And you know, I think you're completely on the right track for those who don't understand McKinley's business, what NDT is McKinley, you can essentially work for like five clients and make some pretty considerable revenue.

So the reality is, is that you don't, he doesn't need to be marketing to a hundred different companies. Him selecting three or four or five main targets. That he, that he thinks are valuable and that he wants to work with is actually a great strategy. And, and I commend you. I I think that's very smart.

The other side of it that you really touched on that is also critical is the relationship side of it. McKinley's not interested in working for a company once he wants to work for them over and over and over again. And in order to do that, he's gonna try to build a personable relationship with that, with that client.

And once again, you're completely on the right track. I would say keep doing that and over time you're gonna find really great success.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Thanks man. We As, as much as I'm like, oh, AI automation, all this stuff. I also think that like, when it comes to talking with people and, and you know, trying to do business with them you need to have that personal touch.

You need to have that conversation that's not just sound sounding like a robot, you know? I, I care about making these companies more money because if they're making more money, then I'm making more money and. Yeah. It, it's, it's not just a business for me. Like this is my life, you know? I spend my whole life on the road more or less.

And so these are my friends, like my clients are my friends. Yeah. And so, absolutely. It's not just a job for me. I enjoy going to work, talking with the QC managers, talking to the, to the QC guys that are out in the field. I want to be their friends. I, I want to be able to tell these guys if I'm having problems with my wife at home, or if my kid's being a, you know, jackass or whatever.

It's, it's nice to have friends when you're gone too, so. Absolutely. That's kind of my approach anyway.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, you're on point, man. It's it's about creating mutually beneficial partnerships. If you are, if you are in a, in a relationship with your client, that is frankly not mutually beneficial to the both of you.

You are with the wrong client. That's what, that's my belief. You know, all companies should be trying to drive value for their clients and the way that that's done, like McKinley said, you know, if his clients are happy, they're reusing his service and he's, he's making a profit, and so it's mutually beneficial.

If he takes the time to create that relationship, that friendship with that client, it also opens the, the area, the avenues of communication where you are better able to negotiate that mutually beneficial relationship. So no, you're, you're completely on the right, the right path. And you know, at Capital we definitely believe that the business relationships are everything and we spend a lot of time focused on creating top level relationships for our clients.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, man, that's that's what we do. Yep.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely, can you tell me a little bit about what what business development tasks you struggle with the most?

Mckinley Hyland: Finding time to do any of it is really tough. So, like I said having those meaningful conversations take time. It's not, yes, you can't just sit down for two minutes and, and, you know, end up getting work so.

Yeah, just the time to do it. That's why I don't, I'm, I've focused on, you know, three or four companies this week and, and these are the people I wanna focus on and, and try and get something going with them. And yeah, it's, it's just finding the time to connect with those people and, and. and yeah, it, that's the hardest part.

That's the number one reason why I would like to have a business development professional on my team full-time. Unfortunately, we're just not there yet. So it's sure it's in my hands, but yeah, time. Hundred percent.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. And you know what, I, I speak to that a lot on this podcast that as, as business owners, we are so swamped.

We have so much on our plates that time, we just don't have the time. And I speak to that in a few of my episodes that we're just so busy that, that frankly, you don't have the time to market your own company. And yeah, while, you know, while this podcast is for those people, at the same time, you know, McKinley, you still have to market your company.

It doesn't really matter that you don't have the time right now if you don't have the money to do, to add another business development rep at the moment. So what you have to do is kind of take that on yourself. So I am hoping that in this podcast, that we are able to deliver value to help that, to help that entrepreneur, to help that new business owner who is really taking it all under his wing, maybe doesn't have the skills or not yet, is learning them to just give him motivation, give him a plan, give him some steps that he can take that are effective and actionable that can lead him to revenues today.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah, that's the, this podcast has helped me out a ton, man. I mean, and, and you, it's funny cuz you'll put out an episode and I'll literally get to work on that. Like that night I'll just start a, you know, start a note in my phone and it's like, okay. This is kind of what I need to do, or this is what I wanna focus on.

And, and usually after you put out a podcast, it's like the next morning when I'm thinking about the, you know, five, 10 things that I want to get done today. Like one of 'em is something that I, that I heard in, in your podcast. So yeah. Oh man. Yeah, it's super helpful for me and, and it's landed me in some meetings already, so it's doing its job so far.

Kelly Kennedy: That's awesome, man. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And you know, like, thank you for having the bravery to reach out to me in the first place. You know, I, it's can be hard, it can be hard sometimes to ask for help and you know, for the most part, if I can take a little bit of time outta my day and help somebody, I don't mind.

And I do commend you. I do commend you for, for reaching out and I'm happy that I've been able to give you some advice that has been helpful for you.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, man, I, I really appreciate it. and kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier in the podcast, you know, for those people that are, you know, thinking about making the jump into, into building their own business or what have you that's one thing that you're gonna kind of have to put to the side.

You're gonna have to put your pride to the side sometimes you're gonna have to ask for help. You're gonna have to , you're gonna have to do that stuff. I'm a super prideful person. I don't want anyone's help ever. I can do it all on my own. That's kind of what a business owner is, right? Like lots of times business owners don't want anyone's help.

They think they can do it better than everyone else. And you might be able to do that thing better than everybody else, but all the things that come along with it, you're gonna need help. And, and so don't be afraid to, to ask. There's the, you know, how many times when you were in elementary school you heard there's no stupid questions.

There's really not like, mm-hmm. , it's, it's incredibly important to be able to, to put your pride to the side and, and know when is the time to ask for help.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. I think. You know, I've had a lot of mentors that have helped me along the way. A lot of other business development people, a lot of business owners who have been willing to give me a leg up, and I wouldn't be here today if I didn't, if I wasn't able to connect with them and ask them questions.

So, you know, if you have mentors in your life or you have people that you look up to, or you know, maybe you're working at a business and your boss is really great and he's willing to share some advice with you, don't hesitate to ask them. You know, they're knowledgeable people. They've made, they've made the mistakes probably 50 times before you have.

And if you can learn something from them. It'll save you a mistake down the road. So please don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to ask ask people that that you think might have some answers for you, some questions, cuz I think in the long term it can it can incredibly benefit your business.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, a hundred percent. Couldn't agree more, man.

Kelly Kennedy: All right. Well if you could go back to the beginning of your business, McKinley, and give yourself one piece of advice that would change everything, what would it be?

Mckinley Hyland: I, I think the number one thing is like, just do it. Like, just, just go for it. I, I sat by and waited for the perfect time. You know, it was like, you know, in, in, after my next paycheck, that's when I'll do it. Or, you know, once I have $15,000 in my savings account and six months of truck payments, then I'll go on my own.

And sure, like I, I wouldn't say start this with $8 in your bank account, but don't wait for the perfect time. I waited it, it didn't cost me anything other than time. I mean, I could have been at this a little bit longer than, than I am, but there's no perfect time. Like we touched on it earlier and, and it still rings true.

Like there's, there's never gonna be a perfect time for any decision that you ever make. So if it feels right and you think you're ready to do it, then just, just do it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. That's excellent advice. That's absolutely top notch advice, McKinley. And I think I think you've definitely inspired a lot of people today and I really appreciate you coming on and being vulnerable with that.

In, in my podcast, I would like to kind of hit a point where I just ask you as well is there any questions that I can answer for you today live that might be beneficial to our listeners?

Mckinley Hyland: Well, you know, you've been answering my questions for a couple months now, so.

Kelly Kennedy: Fair enough, fair enough.

Mckinley Hyland: I've, I've asked you quite a bit, I guess the one question, or I'm sure I'll come up with more after this and I'll be like, oh, I should ask you this but, we'll just have to have you back. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I think one question is like, how do you, how do you toll the line between. , you know, being that annoying sales guy that won't quit trying to sell you his product and being a professional in like a professional business development rep.

How do you, how do you know, or how do you get that feeling or that sense of like, okay, this is, I should send him a, a message today or her a message today or like how, or I should, they're not answering me, I'm gonna cold call them. Like, how do you know what is, or, or what do you use to decide, like when you're gonna go to the next step or, or you're gonna try something else, you know?

Kelly Kennedy: Sure, sure. So, What I like to, I like to give myself a little rule, right? You don't want to contact anybody more than once a week. That's a really, really great first step. That doesn't matter whether you're emailing them, whether you're texting them, whether you're calling them, you know, whatever. If, if you got a client that you want, McKinley, look, let's, let's say that you're trying to get this one client and you're trying over and over and over again.

Remember it takes a lot of time. Okay. I've had, I've had plenty of clients that took me 20 touches. So a touch is something where anytime you reach out to a client in any way, whether that be LinkedIn, whether that be a phone call, email, it's always considered a touch. It's got a reach out. It can take an incredibly long time.

McKinley, I've had, you know, in the quality world, I've had people call me, customers call me and say, I've had your brochure on my desk now for two years. I didn't need you until now. Now we need you. Are you ready? That's not uncommon. That's not uncommon in your world. And so the key is just consistency and kindness.

When you make those, when you make those cold calls, you need to be making them friendly. No, never, ever get upset about it. Never, ever call them out for not answering your phone calls. Never call them out for not answering your emails, and just make sure that you're consistently in a good mood, you know, Hey, it's McKinley.

I, I'd love to connect with you. Still just look to book that introduction meeting. I think we have a service that'll be incredibly valuable to you. I'm really looking forward to meeting you. You can get me back at whatever, you know, have an excellent day and just make sure that when you were leaving those messages, you're leaving them like that.

You're leaving them in a good mood, kind. Somebody you would want to call, call back, right? You always want to think about it from this standpoint. If, if I listen to this message, Would I want to call this person back? And if you're in a grumpy mood, you're not calling anybody back, right? Like if you're, if you're coming across angry or frustrated or like, what the hell?

Why aren't you calling me back? They're never gonna call you back. So you really need to make sure that you're checking your tone and that you're setting yourself to a reasonable. A reasonable amount of contact. And what I would suggest is once a week, if you got a client you like, just once a week, leave 'em a message, shoot 'em an email, thank them for their time.

Always try to come across in a kind way. And over time you're gonna find success with that.

Mckinley Hyland: Right. So you would just say like, your frequency is, is pretty important with not being the annoying guy. And then yes. Your, your kind of tone and your mood and, and, and kind of the way you're reaching out to them, what is is another key.

Kelly Kennedy: It's critical. It's critical, right? Because you gotta think about it from your standpoint. You know, if you're trying to get ahold of s scm or you're trying to get ahold of a quality manager in your case they get, they get like tons of calls every day. You know, they probably get solicited by NDT companies 20 times a day, right?

So you need to stand out. How are you gonna stand out? You're gonna stand out by being consistent, and you're gonna stand out by being the friendly voice on the phone. The, the, the guy who's always in a good mood. Says, I'm looking forward to meeting you. Can't wait. You know, you can get me back at this. Let me know when it's convenient.

If you're coming across and you're consistently hitting them kindly, but you're, you're not hitting them so often that you're, you're annoying. Over time, like I said, maybe it takes 15 touches, but you'll get 'em on the right day and they'll be receptive to you.

Mckinley Hyland: Right. Sounds good.

Kelly Kennedy: Awesome. Well, Thank you so much for being on the show, McKinley.

I would love for you just to plug your company. Can you plug your company and your contact details so that people can get ahold of you if they've heard this episode, and think they might be able to utilize your company?

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, yeah. So Maverick NDT Inspection Inc. Our, our home office is in Medicine Hat Alberta.

We have satellite offices in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, Leduc working on Calgary and Grand Prairie right now, they're not there yet, but we, we will have offices there sooner than later. www.maverickndt.ca. That's m a v e r i c k ndt.ca. You can email me Mckinleyh@maverickndt.ca.

Yeah, that's my e-mail my contact information's on there, my phone number if you really want to get ahold of me, or, or you can add me on LinkedIn, McKinley Highland.

And, and if there's any, any, you know, entrepreneurs out there that have any questions for me I'm, I'm always open to chat and yeah, I'm, I'm all ears.

Kelly Kennedy: That's awesome. Thank you so much, McKinley, for being our very first guest on the Business development podcast, the first of many, I'm sure. But man, I really appreciate it.

I think you provided a ton of value today. I think you've inspired a lot of people today and thank you so much for being on the show. Once again, you've been listening to the Business Development podcast. My name is Kelly Kennedy. You can always reach out to me at podcast@capitalbd.ca with any questions that you may have.

I love to chat and. We've been receiving a lot of reviews over the past week and a lot of listens. Our listenership has gone up quite a bit. I just want to thank everybody who's who's basically just shot me a word and, and subscribed and, and told a friend. I, I can't, I can't even, I have no words. I have no words.

It's it's such a pleasure to do this for all of you and thank you so much for empowering me and allowing me to show up here and and help you build your company. Once again, it's an absolute pleasure. You've been listening to the Business Development Podcast. Have an excellent day.

outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.