PrairiesCan: Igniting Alberta’s Innovation with Derek Armstrong

PrairiesCan: Igniting Alberta’s Innovation with Derek Armstrong

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 162 of the business development podcast. And on today's expert guest interview, we bring you Derek Armstrong, director of Calgary Economic Development and former manager of innovation ecosystems at Prairie's Economic Development Canada. Today, we're talking all about PrairiesCan and the opportunities that are here for you right in Alberta.

Stick with us. You are not going to want to miss this episode.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said, Business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development, advice, tips, and experiences. And you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs. And business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by capital business development, capitalbd.ca let's do it. Welcome to the business development podcast, and now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello, welcome to episode 162 of the business development podcast. And my gosh, do we have an absolute rockstar expert guest for you today? We are going back to the Alberta ecosystem. And today I want to introduce to you Derek Armstrong. Derek is a seasoned leader and champion of innovation. Serving as the manager of innovation ecosystems at Prairies Economic Development Canada, with over 17 years of experience in the federal government, Derek has honed his expertise in driving strategic initiatives to foster economic growth and sustainability.

Based in Calgary, his passion lies in empowering Alberta's innovators, entrepreneurs, and small businesses. Ensuring they all have the resources and support needed to thrive. Leading a dynamic team, Derek is dedicated to advancing sectors such as clean tech, ag tech, life sciences, digital tech, and economic inclusiveness.

With a strong focus on fostering diversity and inclusion within the innovation ecosystem. His unwavering commitment to building a brighter future for Alberta through innovation is evident in every aspect of his work, making him a driving force for positive change in the region's economic landscape. As Derek continues to spearhead initiatives that pave the way for innovation and prosperity, His impact reverberates far beyond the borders of Alberta with a powerful blend of experience, passion and dedication.

Derek Armstrong is not just shaping the future of Alberta's economy, but inspiring a new generation of innovators and leaders to push the boundaries of what is possible, ensuring a legacy of growth and opportunity for generations to come. Derek, it's an honour to have you on the show.

Derek Armstrong: Really happy to be here, Kelly. Thank you so much for having me on.

Kelly Kennedy: No, no, it's a, the pleasure is mine. The pleasure is mine. I know when we connected on LinkedIn and we kind of started chatting, I knew I wanted to have you on the show because we've had people from the business development bank of Canada, from Edmonton unlimited you know, from Alberta innovates and trying to just better understand the Alberta ecosystem and how this whole thing fits together can be pretty confusing for a lot of startups and entrepreneurs.

There's a lot of. Amazing things available to them, which is great. That understanding of how they all work together is is important and it tends to be missing. And so one of my goals with this show was really to just shine a big bright light on all of these various organizations and try to get some cohesiveness as to how they all work together.

So I appreciate you doing that for us today.

Derek Armstrong: No problem. And no pressure there. As you said, it's a very messy space, innovation and entrepreneurism and so forth. And there's so much out there and so many different organizations working in this space. And so, you know, I'll try my best, but I don't think anyone has totally figured it out yet or how to figure out how to present that to the ecosystem to say, this is it.

And this is where you go. And so it's a bit messy, but I actually think innovators like that. A bit messy, too. So it's not such a bad thing. You know what I mean?

Kelly Kennedy: You know, you don't mind getting a little dirty from time to time. Exactly. Exactly. I think it's amazing. I think, you know, just the fact that we have all these support ecosystems within Alberta is truly an amazing thing.

There are so many places that just don't have that available to them. And so, To be in a place where we're just saying, I don't know how to utilize all this stuff available to me is so much better than being in a place where it's like, we don't have anything available to us.

Derek Armstrong: Exactly. Exactly. If I were an entrepreneur, I would absolutely love being here in Alberta, be it Edmonton, be it Calgary, be it, you know, Lethbridge, Grand Prairie, Fort Mac, you know, there are supports all around this province for an entrepreneur.

And yeah, part of my job is to really, you know, support those support support that ecosystem for entrepreneurs and also help them pathfinder to help them figure out where the best place is for them and at what point in their entrepreneurial journey. So, yeah, it's you know, you mentioned Edmonton unlimited and we have a similar platform here in, in, in Calgary called platform innovation center.

And those, so Edmonton unlimited platform innovation center, I consider those as like your one stop shop. So, you know, if you are an entrepreneur, I would say the Door you go knocking on is the platform innovation center. There's a hundred and more than a hundred partners in their ecosystem partners that are just ready to help you out as an entrepreneur and provide you with whatever you need, be it, you know, mentorship, be it access to capital, be it, you know, talent, be it some of that pathfinding.

And so platform innovation center, Edmonton unlimited in our two biggest cities are kind of your one stop shop for an entrepreneur.

Kelly Kennedy: Totally. Totally. So take us to the beginning, Derek, though. You didn't end up here just being a rock star in innovation. You know, what led you on this path? 17 years in government.

That is multiple governments you've worked with. Talk to us. Tell us, how did you end up on this path?

Derek Armstrong: Yeah, well, I don't consider myself a rockstar in innovation, by the way, Kelly, but thank you. But yeah, no, I'm born and raised Montreal, so I'm an English Montrealer. My parents are from a small English town outside Montreal in the eastern townships.

And, you know, moved to Montreal you know, in their twenties. And so I'm born and raised in Montreal lived a lot of time there. And then I actually became quite good at, at basketball. I started off, of course, in Canada playing hockey and then became quite good at basketball. I got a scholarship. To go do my undergrad in the States, full scholarship to go play division two basketball, did that, came back to McGill, came back to home to still play CIS basketball and get my master's there.

And then my first job at a school was a co op. A four month co op in Ottawa at Environment and Climate Change Canada. And it was in Climate Change Strategic Policy. I, and so went there, lived there for four months and I loved it so much. I really enjoyed being in Ottawa advising cabinet being part of some of those high level discussions, even at a really young age, in my mid twenties.

And so I just really fell in love with, you know, public service and, and And giving back and being part of, you know, high level decisions across, you know, pan Canadian decisions. And so Environment, Climate Change Canada for seven years. And then I moved over to Infrastructure Canada for seven years, doing some infrastructure policy and working on a large infrastructure project.

Canada's largest infrastructure project to date in terms of public private partnerships. So a 5 billion bridge outside of Montreal. And then, you know, my wife. Who is a specialist had an opportunity out here to work at the Alberta children's hospital. And I was a little bit after, you know, I think at that point, 15 years in Ottawa, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do in Calgary.

I don't think there's much of a federal government presence in Calgary. Like this is the Ottawa bubble. I've been here for 15 years. What are we, what am I going to go, you know, do out in, in Calgary. But you know, there is this federal government agency called Prairie's Economic Development Canada. So it's It was such a great landing spot for me to work with PrairiesCan.

It's really focused on place based economic development. So economic development five years ago, it was a little bit new to me. I was in Ottawa, and like I said, pan Canadian, big, you know, decisions, climate change, infrastructure, and so forth. And I came out here, and I was like, okay, this is economic development.

And so, you know, five years later, I've just been really, really excited. I, I just, I found my passion. I think I just absolutely love it. I love being part of the ecosystem. I love building this ecosystem. I love all the stakeholder engagement that you do in the public facing nature of the work that you do out here.

It's way, it's so much more different. Different than, than auto on that respect. So yeah, I've been out here for five years with the family, have three boys, my wife, specialists over at the children's I thought everybody, I bought a truck, bought a trailer,

bought a truck, bought a trailer, took up skiing, took up camping. So I'm a total Albertan and I don't think I'm ever going to leave. I absolutely love it here. And it's such a great place to, to raise a family.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Man, that must have been hard for you. I can't imagine what that choice would be like.

Even if an opportunity for me popped up in like Ottawa, like you said, it's home. Like by the time you spent 15 years anywhere, it's home. And at that point too, you're working probably fairly close with, you know, the big wigs in the federal government. And I imagine, like, what was that choice like? I imagine that being really, really hard.

Derek Armstrong: It was, and you do feel, you know, important in, in Ottawa, especially when you're, you know, I, I was, you know, I'm a bureaucrat, so I'm not a politician, of course, but I was at, you know, some of these cabinet meetings, like advising, you know, different ministers, writing their presentations, you know, providing them with recommendations and, you know, going to these cabinet meetings and having, you know, a minister, you know, the late minister apprentice present what you wrote and what you advised.

And then, you know, you get kicked out of the room when they actually make their decisions, but you feel somewhat important to be at that table and to, to really just be there. So it was hard. So, you know, whenever you do a big move like that, it takes a, you know, a good year to really kind of get settled in your new place, but yeah, I, I don't regret absolutely after that, you know, year.

Coming here and building a network and, and finding something I'm really passionate about is it didn't take too much longer.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, you bought the truck and the trailer and you've been to the mountains. So I'd say that you're like, you're a solid way there. Alberta, you know, we have a worldwide audience and Alberta is perfect.

probably one of the most beautiful places on planet Earth. In Calgary, where Derek lives, you can actually see the mountains from downtown and Banff is there. Kananaskis is there. It is a worldwide tourist destination. And so I agree. You know what, like, sure, Ottawa was probably tough to leave, but at least you got to come to Calgary.

Derek Armstrong: Absolutely. And I, you know what, Kelly, I actually still feel like a tourist five years later. It's funny that you say you can see the mountains because I jog home from work and I kind of, you know, I, I, I jog up a hill and you can see the skyline and you can absolutely see the mountains. And every day when I see that, I'm like, this is the place, this is home for me because 45 minutes I'm in the mountains, we're skiing, we're camping, and we're trying to go out there almost every single week.

So it, you know, Calgary, But Calgary specifically is so livable is like the right word. We are ranked as one of the most livable cities in the world. Ottawa was great as well. So Ottawa is always very livable. Like, you know, that midsize city, 1 million people, not a lot of traffic. You can get places, you know, with three kids, I have hockey, basketball, Dance class to take the boys.

And if I was in, you know, Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, where I grew up, like it's not as sustainable, it's like so hard, you know just getting around. So Calgary, I just, the right word for Calgary and Alberta is just that livability really, really struck me.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, for my my fellow Canadians, we're always looking for more workers in Alberta, so feel free to come give us a little visit.

Derek, you know, you're my first kind of official from government and, you know, I've, I've, I've intentionally stayed away from the government side because in my mind, Business is business, and you have to operate business, whether you are conservative, liberal, or somewhere in the middle, which I think most of us are.

And so I've kind of taken some time here to try to stay away from, from politicians, I think. You're not a politician, but I definitely have kind of made a choice to, to not do that intentionally, because I think that most Canadians do fit somewhere in the middle, and I don't want to polarize anybody. I want to.

I want to teach business. I want to inspire and educate people. And I think the best way for me to do that was to keep neutral, which makes sense, I think, for most businesses in general. But you know, you're not either or, but I would love the insight. I would love to know, what is it like to work in government, to work next to these politicians?

Is it hard? Is it challenging?

Derek Armstrong: I think it is, but I think, you know, you have to be, as you alluded to, you have to, as a, as a government. bureaucrat, you have to be a political, you have to check that at the door when you go to work. Of course, everyone has a personal opinion. I'm a Canadian and I can vote even though I'm a government official, I am allowed to vote.

And so, you know, we all have our personal opinions, but I take it with really strong, I have a really strong responsibility to when I'm working to provide advice that is apolitical, that is quote unquote fearless. And it's not to say that I'm absolutely clueless and that I'm, you know, don't know what, you What politicians want or need or what they're driving towards like that is part of my job is to Know the priorities of the government we of our democratically elected government.

They have certain priorities They have certain things that they want to do And so as a government official we try to do that for them. We try to get them what they want, but it has to fit within certain boundaries, and we have to tell them that, okay, well, if you want to make this decision, this, these are going to be the consequences, good and bad.

And so I've faced that many times in my career, where I've had to give that quote, unquote, fearless advice, and maybe sometimes it's not what they wanted to hear. And I think that that is my responsibility.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. And you know what? You know, just for me, thank you for doing that. It is a very needed job.

And at the end of the day, we need people advising and giving great advice to our politicians. Because I do think that politicians are extremely disconnected from everything else going on on a lower level. Just like I don't understand their world. Just like I am in no position to tell a politician how to do their job because I don't know What their job is or what their job tasks even look like.

But on the same front, I think that we need advisors like you to go in and advise them and say, look, like this isn't going to work. Your policies that you're trying to do here, they are going to negatively impact business. They are negatively impacting individuals. And so thank you for doing that. I really appreciate that there are people like you out there, Derek.

Derek Armstrong: And there's a lot like, I mean, it's not just me. I do actually working inside government. I think most people work for government because that appeals to them. They love that public service. They love, you know, giving back to their community and to their country and so forth and providing that advice, you know, everyone has their role.

Like, I respect politicians and they're doing a certain job as well. And we have our job and there's a line in between. And, and as you said, you know, I work for different, you You know, governments. And so the clerk of the privy council office, who is like Canada's top public servant, can you imagine working so closely under one prime minister?

And then, you know, four years later or whatever it is working so closely under another prime minister with vastly different priorities, oftentimes in different directions and so forth. So that is a tough job, but that's, that's what they signed up for.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I think like I know as a, like, as a Canadian, sometimes I'll hear policies and stuff that they're working on.

And to me, it will feel very disconnected. And I think it's just because I don't understand. And I think we have to honestly open our eyes, you know, as Albertans, as Westerners, and just realize that we don't know their job either. And it's like, we can have our opinions and say like, you know what, I don't like that policy or I don't like what they're doing.

And regularly I do that. But I also don't understand what it takes to be a leader or to be a politician. And so just like they couldn't tell you how to do your job because they're not experienced in it, I think on some level we have to be really careful with the way that we kind of past judgment when we don't really understand the full picture of what they're dealing with.

And I think the answer to it all is we need more transparency in general across all sectors and across all governments because I think there is, there's, there's like this veil of just not knowing. And I think if we could remove some of that veil and better understand the things that went into them making those decisions and actually see it, It would make us all better.

Derek Armstrong: Oh, I totally agree with that, Kelly. I think there does need to be more transparency. And I think, you know, the different governments that I've, I've worked under, you know, do say that and, and there is like, you know, access to information. That, that you can request as a citizen, as a journalist or whatnot. I don't want to open the floodgates here because it does cause a lot of work for us to, for these access to information requests.

But the, the, the point is that everything we do as public servants actually is, we call it atypical. And so someone could put in, say like, I want every briefing note on this topic or you know, every email on this topic. And actually we have to disclose all that information. So it is accessible, but I get what you're saying.

I agree that some of these big decisions that get made, sometimes you do only learn about it as a citizen, you know, when the budget's announced or or, or when an announcement is made and you're kind of like, Oh, I, I really disagree with that. I don't, how did they make that decision? Who did they consult?

I think, you know, there's. Definitely a lot of stakeholder engagement and consultation that does get done before these decisions, but it doesn't touch every Canadian. It's a massive country, and it's so different. It's so vast. So some of these, when I was working in Ottawa, some of these, like, I call them pan Canadian policy decisions.

Like, those are, those are, That was so challenging. My brain was hurting every day just because it's so contextual across this country. And it's not always a one size fits all. So you, you, you, you, you know, you, you put out this regulation, you put out this policy and of course, there's going to be winners or losers all the time.

And that is why. I absolutely love being out here in the region and I always say I don't ever want to go back to Ottawa because I feel like that place based federal presence, place based economic development is so valuable. Like we know it's the context out here, we know the business community, we know the stakeholders, we know the opportunities, gaps, and challenges, and everything.

And so and we advocate. On behalf of Alberta into Ottawa, we say this would have unintended consequence XYZ out here. This wouldn't work. This would be beneficial. So we are trying to influence some of those big decisions coming out of Ottawa.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. Derek, why do you think that And I get it. You nailed it.

Canada is huge. I think people don't recognize how big Canada is. Just to give you an idea, I flew to Montreal once. And I'm pretty sure that that flight was like five hours from Alberta. Like it is a long way. It takes less time to go to Mexico than it does to fly. And that's not even to the other end of the country.

That's like, I don't know, halfway. It's bonkers how big Canada is. It's huge. But why do you think there is such a disconnect? Like, and I don't mean a disconnect in general. I guess what I mean is, I feel like Eastern Canadians feel different than Western Canadians, and vice versa. Did you notice any of that when you moved out here?

Is it different? Like, you have an opinion that I haven't been able to have. Someone who's spent a long time in the East and has now spent a fairly long time in the West. Would you say that we're the same?

Derek Armstrong: No, it's 100 percent not the same. We, like he said, such a major, massive country that there's different cultural differences across this country.

Like I said, born and raised in Montreal, moved to Ottawa. I was like, well, this is very different. You know, there's almost like a culture shock when you go from Montreal to Ottawa and then Ottawa out to Calgary. Oh my gosh, such a different. Culture. So people are very different across this country. In my opinion.

I mean, we're all Canadians. We all, that is like our, our default, but I do think that there are some major differences. And I think a big part of it is we, we just also don't know a lot about each other, which is kind of sad to say, but like when I, you know, you think all these things about, you Calgary and Alberta when you're living in Ottawa or you think when you're living out here, you think all these things about Montrealers or whatnot, and so much of it is, is, you know, so generalized and untrue and yes, we can travel as you said, you know, you visit Montreal or you visit Vancouver because it's not the same as like living in that place.

So I have had the benefit of, you know, spending. quite a bit of time in different parts of this country. Not all, of course, is, you know, I've only touched the tip of the iceberg, but I have seen some major cultural differences, and I think it's a good thing, but I think it can make it challenging for a government policymaker at the same time.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, I think that any prime minister, and I don't care who it is and what side they're on, has their work cut out for them when it comes down to unifying a country of this size.

Derek Armstrong: Absolutely. That is a tough job. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, Derek, I really appreciate you taking some time on that. I know that those weren't always easy questions, but I do appreciate it because like I said, I just haven't been able to have that perspective on this show.

So I thank you for stepping up and doing your best with it. I know it's not easy.

Derek Armstrong: No, all good. No, happy. I'm an open book. I'm transparent.

Kelly Kennedy: I appreciate that. Well, I'm ready to get into. Prairie's Economic Development Canada. What the heck is Prairie's Economic Development Canada?

Derek Armstrong: Yeah, happy to talk about PrairiesCan.

And yeah, so I've been here for about five years. So we are a federal government department. So we're a regional economic development agency. We cover Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba. So there's seven of these agencies all across Canada. So there's PrairiesCan, there's Pacific Can for Vancouver. There's an Ontario FedDev Ontario.

There's ACOA out in the Atlantic provinces and and our mandate is to essentially grow and diversify the economy and no small feet, no ambition, no, not ambitious at all, especially in Alberta with, you know, strong oil and gas and, and ag and manufacturing and so forth. Those are our traditional industries, but our, our mandate out here is to help diversify the economy.

And so it's more resilient and has, you know, and it's more we can provide long term prosperity. So we used to actually be called Western Economic Diversification. We changed our name, you know, three years ago. It was a branding change and a little bit of a focus change to Prairie's Economic Development.

And, you know, our, we have different roles so that we are. Doing to try to diversify the economy. We're best known as an end quote unquote investor. But we also do some convening advising. I already mentioned some pathfinding and I already mentioned some advocacy work, but I'll touch on the investor role.

So what we're doing is we're in fact, quote unquote, investing into. Organizations out here, so we'll invest directly into companies. So scale companies that are scaling that are trying to diversify the economy, be it in clean tech, ag tech med tech advanced manufacturing. We are giving, we are providing them with a zero interest, essentially repayable loans.

So that's one stream of funding as an example. The fund that I manage is called the regional innovation ecosystems. And so what I'm doing is I'm trying to essentially build an innovation ecosystem in Calgary, for example, where an entrepreneur or an innovator has everything they need to be able to succeed.

And so this is, I'm investing into not for profit organizations like academic institutions, industry associations, accelerators. Incubators, collision spaces applied research testing and, and so forth. So if you're an innovator and you need some, some de risking, some testing, you can go here. If you need some mentorship, you go to CDL Rockies.

If you need that one stop shop, you go to platform innovation center and that is non repayable funding. So that's more like our grant funding that we're putting out there. So in the last few years, the team and I have deployed. 100 million into this ecosystem into Calgary and some pan Albertan projects.

So a hundred million dollars into like 50 different initiatives. All that I mentioned is like all that I mentioned, like mentorship and acceleration, incubation, and all that. All that amazing stuff. So I could really talk a lot about that, but I'm really proud of that work. We're only a team of five and to deploy that amount of federal funding in such a short period of time, I think it was really impressive.

And it's all the credit to my team because they do all the work. I do some of the high level thinking and visioning and stakeholder engagement and so forth, and this is what the ecosystem needs. But they do all the work behind the scenes and I have a rockstar team.

Kelly Kennedy: First off, wow, like unreal hundred million dollars.

That is crazy. What, how do you make your decisions as to what is going to get that funding? Obviously, like you said, you're focused on like med tech, ag tech, things like that. But are there certain sectors that you guys are doubling down on?

Derek Armstrong: So, yeah, like I said, we have, we have five kind of key priority sectors, and those are all listed on our website.

We're actually quite transparent as to, you know, what makes a strong application. And that's all on our website. There's parameters and so forth, you know of course, KPIs are return on investments. So the more jobs you're going to help create through your initiatives, the more investment you're going to be able to attract, the more revenues you're going to create for.

The companies that you're supporting, that's, you know, gonna, gonna get you at the top of the pile and so forth. But yeah, you hit a key priority sector, you get KPIs, you are the, have the right management governance structures within your organization. I think those are some really positive attributes, but and so that's kind of how we make our decisions, but we are really.

Proactive as an organization. So we will not just sit back and wait for applications for funding to come in. You can, you can go on our website and you can apply for funding and we get that we get inbound applications. But what we really kind of what I pursued as to the what I kind of really push was for us to go out there, be part of the ecosystem.

Talk to innovators, talk to entrepreneurs, say, what do you need? What, what, what, what is holding you back from commercializing your solutions faster from from, you know, creating jobs and getting more revenues, what do you need? And so we are a partner to the ecosystem and that's a big part. So we'll. We curate different projects with different organizations and are also our partners.

So we work closely with Alberta Innovates. We work closely with Emissions Reduction Alberta. We work closely with other federal government departments as well, and we co develop these solutions together as an ecosystem.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, amazing. Okay, we're going to get into that because I want to better understand how that works.

But one of the questions that just came up for me is what is holding a lot of these entrepreneurs back? What are some of those challenges that you're seeing coming up over and over and over again?

Derek Armstrong: I would say the top three for me are people, Money and skills. And so talent, capital, and the right skills.

And so of course, access to capital, any company, especially hard tech. So if you're in, you know, clean tech, especially, and you have like something physical that you want to deploy out there to reduce emissions that you need. Money you need access and it's high risk. So you need high risk capital to develop Your solution to prototype it and then to scale it.

So access to capital is number one and then people so talent so you're building a team You know, and you need specialists you need HQP, so high quality personnel you need, engineers you need, a lot of very intelligent people. And so that talent to build your team is really, really important. So yeah, and then like I said, you just also just need that.

Infrastructure. It's hard to build a business. So when I say infrastructure is everything that I'm, we are trying to provide to the ecosystem. And so, you know, you need mentorship, you need collision space, you need piloting, you need testing, you need access to wet labs, you need all these different things.

And so I would put all that into another bucket and that's really contextual based on the company. But the top two are people talent and money, of course.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay, and when it comes to like talent. What is the solution there? Like, what do you guys typically recommend?

Derek Armstrong: So I actually were a real big fans of work integrated learning.

So getting students into, you know, these co op positions or, or, or short term jobs right out of school. And we've actually supported some work integrated learning. Learning programs through our our non repayable programming. So Calgary Economic Development has an initiative called Talented YYC, where it's a partnership between Calgary Economic Development and nine academic institutions in Alberta.

And so all these students can go on this platform. And employers can go on this platform and it's like a matchmaking and you get these students fresh out of university into these companies and they can hit the ground running there. But also there's, you know different platforms for, you know, more senior talent as well.

And yeah, I think that that's getting our youth into some of these positions and also some more senior level. So, of course. You know, talent attraction is a big push right now from our provincial government. Alberta is calling.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, it is. We know that. We know that people, there's been, there's been a shortage of people for a while.

And it's, I, you know, I mean, it's changing. I think we're getting more people, but at the same time, you're right. We, we can use some more. So if you're listening from East Coast, we would love to see more of you.

Derek Armstrong: For sure. For sure. And then when it comes to the, the, the capital, I think that that's also a problem that we're trying to solve.

And so we, we always hear in Alberta, there's a lot of money on the sidelines. Right. So there's a lot of oil and gas, a lot of money on the sidelines. And so what we're trying to do is trying to spur that and catalyze that into the tech sector, into the innovation sector. And so we support an organization called Startup TNT.

And so what they do is that they bring together angel investors. In, in the community and they're actually operating all across Western Canada now and they have, they hold these events so they hold like pitch nights and, you know, it's like a competition top 20 and then, you know, the finals and so forth and they just, yeah, it's bringing people together and, and, and, and building awareness and knowledge of some of these amazing companies and putting them in front of of some of these angel investors to try to deploy some of that capital that is on the sidelines into these amazing tech companies.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I love that. I love that. One of the questions that I have, though, Derek, is why do we need so many organizations to accomplish these things, right? It's like we have Edmonton Regional Innovation, ERIN, right? We have Edmonton Unlimited, you're right, Startup TNT you know, Alberta Innovates, and I know they kind of tend to fund those things, like the regional initiatives.

And But it seems like a lot of organizations to do the same thing, to grow a startup, to grow tech, or whatever it is we're doing. Why is it that that's the route we've went?

Derek Armstrong: I don't know if it's like the route we went. I think it kind of happens organically. But it is something, it's a question. It's a really good question.

I think there are a lot of different organizations that are doing it. Doing different but similar things. And so one thing that I've kept an eye on is really when we do fund an organization, we're really looking for something that is unique and non duplicative. So we're not, and that's why it's so important to know the ecosystem and to kind of be aware of who does what, because you don't want to fund an organization.

Then another organization is like, we're doing the exact same thing. What are you doing? And so that would make no sense to duplicate supports. Right. You know, in some sectors, inevitably, because some of these sectors like clean tech energy transition, they're so big, that of course, maybe there's going to be a little bit of duplication to organizations doing similar things like an accelerator, but they're different, different people, different type of programming, and so forth, you're going to get a little bit of duplication.

But what we are trying to look at, Inside prairies can is really a complimentary investment where organizations, what they're doing is unique where we're not fragmenting the ecosystem further, and we're actually bringing it together. So we're looking at some consolidation. We're looking, we always push organizations to work together and maybe come together and consolidate.

So definitely, you know, it is a bit messy out there and there's a lot of different options for an entrepreneur and innovator, and we talked about that. that at the beginning is that, you know, part of my role is to do help that pathfinding. I get a lot of inbound from entrepreneurs, innovators, LinkedIn and email and so forth.

And I do help direct them to different organizations like CDL Rockies and, you know, platform and startup TNT and so forth. So I do a lot of that. Yeah. A lot of pathfinding.

Kelly Kennedy: So you being the federal arm, like in my mind, when I'm looking at it from, you're obviously controlling. All federal funding that comes into the startup ecosystem.

Is that fair to say?

Derek Armstrong: No, no. Okay. So there's other, so that's another kind of whole can of worms there is that there's a lot of different government, federal government departments doing different things as well. PrairiesCan isn't, it doesn't have all the funding. We have a good portion of it and we are, The boots on the ground out here, I would say there, but however, there's a lot of different funding programs, even inside the federal government with other different you know, government departments that are operating outside of Ottawa.

So, natural resources, Canada, you got the Canada growth fund who just invested into 2 companies out here in Calgary ever and and another company. And and so you have the environment. Canada, you have strategic innovation fund, you have a lot of different programs inside the federal government.

And so, yeah, we, we're not the only ones.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh my goodness. You just made this way more complicated, Derek.

Derek Armstrong: I know. And, and it's so funny that I know, I know. And it's something else that we hear all the time is that there needs to be, Consolidation of federal government programs. If I would find it somewhat frustrating, there's some, there's some websites out there some government websites where you can go if you are an entrepreneur and you can kind of answer.

10 questions called innovation. canada. ca. You can answer certain questions and then it kind of spits out a list of different federal programs that you could potentially be eligible for. So at least it kind of gives you a direction and it, and it hones in on certain programs. So there's that, you know what, there's a lot of consultants, which is a little bit crazy to me that there's.

Consultants out there helping people access government programs and funding. That's how complicated it can be. Like I said, massive country, big federal government department, a lot. It's a good thing that there's a lot of supports available out there. But the unintended consequence is that it can be a bit challenging and there's a lot of different programs and all these programs have different parameters and different requirements and different speeds and different timelines and so forth.

And so, you know, I, and that's why it's really important to come talk to someone like me who is out here who can say these are the programs that you should, you know, Target or or talk to a consultant. There's a really awesome organization here in Calgary called thin air labs and they provide that service to entrepreneurs where they will help them access certain government programs.

So don't do it alone. Definitely seek that advice from either me inside government or some of these consultants. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. In my mind, I was thinking, okay, so we got PrairiesCan, and they must be feeding like Alberta Innovates, and then they distribute it out to like the various RINs, the Regional Innovation Networks, and that's not how it works at all, but I bet you I'm not alone in thinking that that was how it works.

Derek Armstrong: Oh, for sure. Like, yeah, absolutely. If you're outside, I'm inside government, Kelly, and I don't know how it works off the time, but like, if you're outside government, absolutely, you wouldn't know how this funding is flowing and so forth. But Alberta innovates is, is provincial. So that's coming from provincial taxpayers.

Yeah. Prairie's economic development is coming from federal taxpayers and an organization like Calgary economic development, Edmonton global, that's coming from municipal taxpayers. So it's. different pots of money, different you know yeah, different, a pool of taxpayers where it's coming from.

However, I would say that prairies can, because we are in the federal government, we are the federal government. So larger pool of taxpayers, we actually distribute, we do distribute some funding to Alberta innovates for certain initiatives. So as a funder, I can fund, and we have with Great success, Alberta innovates, because there's some initiatives that they're doing that we absolutely love.

And we say, Hey, let's throw into this initiative. So I heard that you did have Doug Holt from Alberta innovates on and I listened to that podcast. So I worked really closely with Doug and his team and some of the things that they're doing, we love. So we did provide, for example, 5 million into their hydrogen center of excellence that they're doing there.

We said, this is amazing. 5 million. We did that. We're looking at some other initiatives with Alberta innovates as well. Well, they also did a 35 million business accelerator and incubator initiative where they attracted world class accelerators and incubators here to Calgary. So like Plug and Play, Thrive SVG, Startup 500.

And that's another thing that PrairiesCan supported. We said, we'd love it. Absolutely. So we can fund Alberta innovates directly. So that, but they have their own mandate and their own funding from the provincial government as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I see. Okay. So it's more of a partnership.

Derek Armstrong: Absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy: Gotcha. Okay.

It's a great partnership. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you for explaining it on that level, because I think that really did break it down for people. It's like, Oh, okay. Like that gives me a much better understanding of typically how this works, one of the things that you had mentioned as we got started on this was that there's a lot of.

services available that aren't necessarily just money. Can we go into some of the other services specifically that PrairiesCan offers maybe in that realm of consulting or helping people in different ways other than financial?

Derek Armstrong: For sure. So I think actually one of the ones that I really like is Mount Royal University's growth catalyst program.

And so what they do there is, you know, so they will actually support the management team of a company that is growing. So they'll have like the CF, CEO, CFO, and, and actually some of these CEOs for, for these companies, they maybe don't have all the skills, the business skills that they need. And so it's called, it's a mentorship program where they go in, they look at the company, they see, okay, how can you maybe grow further, faster and so forth.

And how can we. You know, teach you some of those skills. So there's some really good coaching and mentorship programs out there. That's not only about money. Another thing we're real fans of our collision spaces. And so we really like providing space for entrepreneurs, innovators to come together, to network, to talk about.

You know, the problems and solutions, but not only that, but to actually also have a space where they can actually interact with the adopters. And so there's an 1 of the project. 1 of my favorite projects ever is called the energy transition center. So this is downtown Calgary, and it's a space where.

Clean tech entrepreneurs can actually access oil and gas adopters, and there's some programming that gets done in there to help upskill some of this talent inside oil and gas that are trying to develop some clean tech solutions. And they're deep. They're de risking some of these solutions because oil and gas is in the room as well.

So collision spaces, mentorship programs, applied research. So that's not only about money. So SAIT, so polytechnic, you got, you have SAIT, you have NAIT here who are, you know, have labs and facilities where you can kind of go in with a prototype and, and pilot and, you know, pilot it and test it and de risk your solution.

So it's all about moving faster. Within this ecosystem and increasing the velocity of scaling some of these solutions.

Kelly Kennedy: Interesting. Okay. It's super cool. You touched on something here that I think a lot of people are like, Oh, hold on. Because I think most people think things like this services like this are for startups only, but it sounds like that's not the case.

Derek Armstrong: No, so we're, we're looking at all phases of, of entrepreneurship. So there's definitely a top end of the funnel where you have an idea and then you can maybe go, you know, and that's how you're starting. So that's when you talk about technology readiness levels, that's like technology readiness level, like number one, that's like, you have an idea of something you want to do and you're And that's it.

And so there's like programming and mentorship that you can get for that. But then there's also, okay, well, you you're way past the idea. You have a team, you have a prototype, you actually have a solution. You actually can, you're getting market traction. So there's programs for scale ups. Because they're, they're selling whatever solution they have.

And there's a lot of programming and mentorship and networking access to capital that those types of companies require as well. So we're looking at every phase of entrepreneurship.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing, amazing, man. You just opened a lot of doors for people. Cause I think there's a lot of misconception thinking that.

These spaces and these things are only for these new exciting tech companies and startups that are just looking for that boost, but that's not the case. That's not the case at all.

Derek Armstrong: It's not. No, so actually PrairiesCan is more in the later stage. So we're more in like the scale up. Alberta Innovates is a little bit more in the startup.

So early stage, early TRLs R& D research, whereas PrairiesCan, we come in a little bit later. Okay. In that, in that, in that entrepreneurial journey where, you know, the companies are close, they're actually getting revenues, they're out there selling stuff and we're helping them take it to the next level.

So there's like all these different challenges that an entrepreneur will face depending on what phase of the journey they're in.

Kelly Kennedy: And it's totally for the benefit of business, because what benefits all businesses basically benefits all of Alberta. And at the end of the day, that's your goal is to benefit all of Alberta.

Derek Armstrong: Absolutely. We're trying to benefit Alberta just by diversifying this economy so that we are more resilient, that we are more resilient to the ups and downs of the economy. And yeah, I think, you know countries and provinces that are more diversified, it's just only going to benefit. Canadians and Albertans, for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Totally, totally. I think that's really important. I think it's important for people to realize that Canada as a whole benefits when any one of our provinces benefits. Not just Alberta, not just Ontario, not just Newfoundland, but if any of these provinces benefit, we benefit as a whole. And so, agreed. I think it's important that we are fighting together to win together.

Derek Armstrong: Absolutely. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Kelly Kennedy: Derek, we've been focused really heavily on Alberta, just because obviously that's where we are, right? But Prairies, you know, implies more than just Alberta. Do you, do you also support Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and into BC as well?

Derek Armstrong: So my, so PrairiesCan is, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and then we have another Organizations called Pacific and and that's just British Columbia Western economic diversification used to look at all four provinces, but there was a, you know, a realization that the prairies very different from British Columbia.

So they split the 2 agencies into 2 separate ones. However we work really closely with Pacific and on some initiatives because, you know, some of these things cross boundaries, of course and of course, I work really closely with my Manitoba and Saskatchewan counterparts. I'm based in Calgary. So I, my focus is Calgary, Southern Alberta, Alberta, but a lot of what I do.

Like I said, crosses boundaries. So I work really closely with my counterparts in the different provinces. Really good example of that is a really great organization called Movement 51. and so they're all about providing mentorship. And programming to female investors to enable them to invest into female led companies.

And so they started delivering their Calgary base, but, and they started delivering programming here in Calgary, but they wanted to scale. They were doing so well, getting so much traction, getting really great economic outcomes getting money off the sidelines into female led companies. So we helped them scale across.

The prairies and same thing with start up TNT. They started in Calgary. We started their programming and then we supported them to scale across the prairies as well. Things like hydrogen, which is a really big opportunity for Alberta, but also there could be hydrogen hubs all across the prairies.

So absolutely. We look at things that are a pan prairies for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Amazing. And let's talk a little bit about that. Obviously, hydrogen is super exciting. And in my mind, I think, you know, I mean, I've thought of this for a little while, but I think that that could be a big solution to some of our energy challenges here in Alberta and across Canada.

One of the other things that you work on is Energy Futures Lab. Can you introduce us to that?

Derek Armstrong: So yeah, Energy Futures Lab is an organization, it's a not for profit organization, and they're like, really interesting. So they have a lot of different individuals from different organizations and sectors. So they'll have government, they'll have, you know, oil and gas, they'll have clean tech entrepreneurs.

They will have academia, they'll have environmental NGOs like Opemba Institute and so forth. And what it is, is it brings people together to discuss these major challenges. So, they call it, you know, a lab, and it's thought leaders that come together, you know, To really talk about the key opportunities and challenges in Alberta and across Canada when it comes to our energy future.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, interesting. Interesting. Like, what has it been like being in a room with people like that? That must be pretty exciting.

Derek Armstrong: It's really exciting and it's really interesting. I'm actually stepped away a little bit just when I became manager of innovation ecosystems. So one of my team members has taken more day to day interest in Energy Futures Lab, but it is really interesting.

It's, you get a lot of different viewpoints and it just goes to show that there are so many different perspectives. I think we alluded to earlier that not only in this country, but Even within a sector in Alberta, you have all these different stakeholder groups that have different perspectives on how you should do it, what you should do at what speed, at what scale and so forth.

And so I think that collaboration and that, you know, hashing it out is so important because it results at the end of the day in progress.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, totally, totally. And I'm excited to see what happens. Honestly, like, I'm really pumped to see kind of where we're going to go in the next little bit, especially with regards to hydrogen.

I'm very hopeful for it.

Derek Armstrong: I think so too. And I think you mentioned earlier, you know, what was the one sector that, You know, we see the most potential and I forgot to answer your question there, and I absolutely think here in Alberta specifically, is that energy transition. It's that clean energy. It's clean tech.

It's reducing emissions. And a lot of people would see it as, you know, A negative thing. You know, it's going to harm our economy. I actually see it as the biggest economic opportunity of our lifetime. We did actually a study. We, we, we did a third party study that goes to show that. I think 150, 000 jobs can be created and 61 billion in GDP can increase by, you know, 2050 through this new sector.

And so it's such a big economic opportunity. So for me in Alberta, that is the sector we have focused on quite a bit. We've invested a lot into hydrogen, into the hydrogen sector. I'd say about a hundred million dollars, probably 15, 20 million is. Into hydrogen specifically. And so, you know, one example there is we supported the Alberta Motor Transport Association to invest in Hydrogen Trucks.

And so it's all about de risking because if you're a truck. Carrier you don't want to invest in this really expensive hydrogen truck right off the bat, right? You know, you don't know if it works You don't know if your drivers are going to be able to work it You don't know how refueling is and so forth how the conditions if it's going to work in the alberta conditions.

So we have this de risking initiative where you know, there's hydrogen trucks rolling around this province to try to you know, Yeah, get people to invest in these trucks in the future.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, and I think, I think it's great. I'm, I like the idea of electric vehicles. I just don't like the actual physical application of them because in my mind, we don't have the energy storage capability yet for it to make a lot of sense, right?

Like, like you said, we live in Canada, big country. For me to drive even to Banff, We're talking probably five hours straight by the time I get there. My battery is depleted and I hope to God that I can find a charging station. But once again, if I want to go see the mountains throughout that day, I gotta wait for my car to charge.

Or if it's winter time, that's not going to fly because now I've lost probably 10, 15, 20 percent of my battery storage. So now I can't even make it. So for me, I'm not sold on electric vehicles. I love the idea of them. I love the looks of them. I'm a huge fan of like the cars that are coming out for these electric vehicle manufacturers.

I think they're gorgeous. I think they've done a great job at making them marketable and beautiful, but the application to me doesn't make sense, however. If we could do the same thing with hydrogen and burn a much cleaner fuel, then that changes my opinion completely. Or to have like both, where you have a, you know, a hydrogen engine that is then charging a lithium battery, and then you get the best of both worlds.

I like that idea.

Derek Armstrong: Definitely. So speaking as Derek Armstrong, a Canadian, I have a gas guzzling truck. And the reason why I don't have an electric truck is because it's just not good for me. I have three kids. We travel to the mountains a lot. We use this truck for kind of those heavy duty activities. And yeah, I haven't as a consumer purchase an electric vehicle.

I think it's coming, but the infrastructure definitely needs to be built out. I think for city driving. So my wife who only goes 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes around Calgary, she's in the market for an electric vehicle. It makes a lot more sense for her. And so I think it's very contextual around electric vehicles.

And I, I do think it's coming. It is the future. The infrastructure just definitely needs to get built out and it needs to be the convenience for consumers for an electric vehicle owner has to increase there because time is money for people and they don't want to spend a lot of time charging and being inconvenienced and having to go out of their way to charge and so forth.

And so there's a little bit of concern about. You know, the, the dwindling market demand around electric vehicles, but I think it's going to come. But when it comes to hydrogen, Kelly, you'd have to talk to a really much smarter person than myself, but apparently hydrogen, there's never going to be a big market for.

Consumer vehicles, the target market for hydrogen are heavy vehicles for some reason. So yeah, fixed fixed origin destination heavy trucks apparently that's the market segment for hydrogen.

Kelly Kennedy: Hmm. Yeah, I wonder. Yeah, I will. I will have to talk. I'm not a hydrogen expert on here yet, but now you got my mind turning.

I got to find one. You might know one actually.

Derek Armstrong: Oh yeah, there's, there's several. Yeah, yeah. Dan Wicklum.

Kelly Kennedy: No, no, it is, it is interesting. And I think either way, whatever happens, I'm, I'm excited to see what happens, you know, like, I think we're in, we're in an interesting time for Alberta and Canada as a whole, and it'll be really interesting to see what's next.

And I think you're right. I think there's a lot of opportunity here. And if we just open our eyes and say, you know what, what. are the possibilities. We're going to be surprised.

Derek Armstrong: For sure. Agreed. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Derek, you know, you've worked with PrairiesCan for quite a bit of time. We're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs, seasoned ones, startups.

What's your best growth advice for them using your experience from PrairiesCan?

Derek Armstrong: So this is what I talk about a lot. And I talked a lot about today is like, don't go it alone. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they don't realize everything that is out there that is available to them at a very low cost, if not free, because of these government subsidies.

So you can go join an accelerator, get in front of customers, get in front of adopters, you can go get this mentorship, you can go do pitch nights and get potential investment from them. Angel investor. So why would you not get out there and and get into the ecosystem? And I think that that most Alberta entrepreneurs are in the ecosystem, but sometimes they come to me and I'm like, how have you not gone to start up TNT?

How have you not gone to CDL Rockies? How have you not been in Platform Innovation Center or Energy Transition Center? So that's my number one, number one piece of advice is don't try to do this alone. You have to get out there, collaborate and access All the support that is out there that is government funded.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Amazing. Derek, this has been awesome. We've been chatting with Derek Armstrong, manager of innovation systems at Prairie's Economic Development Canada. Derek, it was an absolute honor having you on today.

Derek Armstrong: Thanks so much, Kelly. That was fun.

Kelly Kennedy: Until next time, this has been the Business Development Podcast, and we will catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation.

And business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.