Speak Like a Pro: Insider Tips from Former CTV News Anchor Carmen Leibel

Speak Like a Pro: Insider Tips from Former CTV News Anchor Carmen Leibel

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 160 of the business development podcast. And if you've ever had a fear of public speaking, well, who better to teach us how to do it than a former CTV news anchor today, we're chatting with Carmen Leibel about the five steps of becoming an effective public speaker. Stick with us. You are not going to want to miss.

This episode.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said business happens over years and years value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development, advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by capital business development, capitalbd.ca. Let's do it. Welcome to the business development podcast. And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello. Welcome to episode 160 of the business development podcast. My gosh. Milestone 160. It feels a little unbelievable. It kind of is a little bit because we're still We're actually recording right now. This episode is almost 30 episodes into the future with regards to our guest bookings, because we are booked quite a ways.

But it's still bonkers to think that this particular episode could be episode 160 of the Business Development Podcast. So cool. Such an honor to be able to do this show and to be able to be on with you guys. Today, we have an absolutely Rock star, rock star, expert guest, you may have seen her on TV today.

We're on with Carmen Leibel she stands as a beacon of empowerment, leveraging her extensive expertise in broadcast journalism and community engagement to inspire individuals of all ages to communicate with confidence. With over 15 years spent in the fast paced world of news reporting and anchoring with CTV News, Carmen has honed her skills as a storyteller and communicator.

However, her journey did not stop there. Recognizing the growing importance of effective communication skills and an increasingly digital and interconnected world, Carmen embarked on a new adventure as an entrepreneur founding Project Five. Through this innovative initiative, Carmen has pioneered a curriculum designed to instill confidence and proficiency in public speaking among students, entrepreneurs, and executives alike with remarkable success.

But Carmen's impact extends far beyond the classroom and boardroom. As an active member of the community, she has dedicated her time and expertise to numerous charitable organizations, lending her voice as an emcee and advocate for causes close to her heart. Whether she is supporting the Lois Hole Hospital for Women, the Canadian Breast Cancer Society, or the Edmonton Down Syndrome Society, Carmen's commitment to making a difference is unwavering.

Her passion for empowering others shines through in every endeavor she undertakes, leaving a lasting impression on all those fortunate enough to cross her path. In a world where effective communication is the currency of success, Carmen stands as a true champion. Guiding individuals to unlock their full potential and seize every opportunity with confidence and poise as she continues to inspire and uplift those around her.

Carmen's legacy as a communicator, entrepreneur and community leader only grows stronger as she continues to empower entrepreneurs and executives around the world. Carmen, it's an honor to have you on today.

Carmen Leibel: Oh, wow. What a kind introduction, Kelly. Thank you so much. Can I just take a moment to thank you though?

So as you mentioned, I'm a new entrepreneur and I have been soaking up all the information possible. And I'm, I'm a new LinkedIn member and I was on LinkedIn and I think you probably know where this is going. I saw you pop up on there and he's from Edmonton, my hometown. Yes. So I started listening to your podcast and I have to say, I've been So, so much as I navigate this new journey, just sales marketing.

I love the episode where you talk about the five words. What are the next steps? I do that now.

I make lists just like you and I love writing notes just like you. I'm all over that. But Kelly, congratulations on this podcast, the number of downloads and the followers. And I am a huge, huge fan. So thank you.

I just had to. Say that right off the top.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Amazing. No, it's so cool. It's so cool. The impact we've had with the show. I could have never could have never imagined, but I feel like that's like almost anything you do, right? Like you don't start it thinking, Oh, this is going to be super cool or heck we could change the world with this.

It ends up there. And I think so much of the entrepreneurial journey, we like to pretend like we know where we're going. But I think For the most part, no matter how many five year plans you make, no matter how many three year plans you make, they're probably never going to end up exactly how you plan them.

I like to think that as long as you stick with it, the opportunities to grow and to make that impact tend to present themselves. The secret is really just not to give up. And that can be really hard, right? Like there's a lot of times where as an entrepreneur, I've sat and you know, even like even recently where it's like, Okay, is everything that we're doing moving the needle?

Am I making an impact? Am I doing something that is going to be good for me long term? Good for people long term? Good for our family long term? And entrepreneurship can be hard on all of those things. There's plenty of opportunities to quit, but I really think that the secret to making it is simply just not to quit.

Carmen Leibel: Yeah, and I believe if the root of it is your passion and if you truly believe in it and believe in what you're doing, that's like project five, anything is possible. So I totally agree with everything you just said.

Kelly Kennedy: And natural talent. I would say, I would say, I would say by the time you spent, you know, 15 years plus as a news anchor, there might be a little bit of talent there on the communication side.

Carmen Leibel: Fair, fair point.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Take us back though. You know, who is Carmen Leibel? How did you end up on this path?

Carmen Leibel: Yeah. It's a, it's a long journey. I'll, I'll take you back to, I suppose my childhood. I was I was a storyteller. I enjoyed being in front of an audience. I was in musical theater for most of my childhood.

So I think I was in 15, 16 shows with the St. Albert children's theater. One year I was, I had the lead role of Alice in Alice in Wonderland. So nervous, but yeah, great, great opportunity for me. And throughout my mom actually said that when I was six years old, I pointed to a newscast and I said, that's going to be me one day.

I was six, I played it to a news anchor. And so when I was in high school, I went and I watched a live newscast. And I really, I knew I love to write. I love to share stories. I love being a part of the community. That was always, those were all really important things for me and something I wanted to build into a career.

So I applied for a job. Into the NAIT radio and television program, they only accept a handful of students into the television program and I did not get accepted and I was like, okay, what's my plan B going to be? I also really love educating and teaching. So I'm like, well, you know what? Maybe I should become a teacher instead.

And so I was in the McEwen transfer program. Studying to, I was going to become a teacher, but in the back of my mind, I thought, I still broadcast journalism is still, Ooh, I'm really passionate about that path. Let me apply again. Guess what? Kelly did not get accepted.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, no, my gosh. But me and you both know, eventually you did.

So. What, like, what were you thinking at that time? Two times? Two times. You still haven't made it?

Carmen Leibel: No, relentless. I was like, no, this is not going to happen. So I actually went down to NAIT and I spoke with the program head. His name is Patrick Galanza. And I was like, Patrick, you need to accept me into this program.

And I wrote a really great letter. And I was, I, I guess, I was tenacious, and I wasn't going to give up, and third time's a charm, I got accepted into the program.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow. So you business developed your way into journalism.

Carmen Leibel: I guess so.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow, that is so ambitious. I, you know, I remember doing something, obviously, not that.

But when I was in college, there was a place there was there was a restaurant specifically in like I was doing my community college in the mall and I wanted to work at Mr. Mike's Steakhouse because I knew that if I worked in a steakhouse, I could make better tips than if I worked at anywhere else. And I remember like I same thing I like knocked that door multiple times didn't get hired didn't get hired finally just kept kept going in and saying, Look, you need to hire me like this is where I'm going to work and eventually I got it.

There's something to be said about just being relentless and you have to do it in. In a, in a nice way, but if you can figure out a way to balance your relentlessness with being able to like not piss people off, you can go a long way.

Carmen Leibel: It's so true. And I think, I just remember setting up that meeting and going in there and saying, okay, what do I need to do to get, get into this program?

Because they only accepted 12 television and 18 radio at the time. Wow. Depending on the semester or else it was 18 radio. Television, 12 radio. So it really was a small group of people, but I wanted to be a part of that small group of people because I could not shake the feeling that this was supposed to be my path as much as I was like, Ooh, I'd be a great teacher.

Education is another fantastic path. Absolutely. But I could not get rid of that in my ear. That feeling in my heart, I guess the gut instinct that I, I need to be a journalist. And, and that's, that's what happened.

Kelly Kennedy: So you, you knew, like you ultimately, I think for a young person, I know when I was young, I didn't know what I wanted to do.

And I feel like Heck, like even when I was like 23, when I first got into business development, I still didn't know if that was really what I wanted to do. Like ironically, when I got into business development, I was running away from sales like full on as fast as I could go because I'd been doing it already for six years by that point.

And I was just like, okay, I want to go to business school so I can get away from this. You know, maybe I can get like a cushy operations job or like something like that, where it's just like, I have a task to do every day. I know what I need to do. I get that done. I go home. Life's good. And ironically, like I ended up in that position and they recognized how good I was at sales and business development.

And they're like, look, like this is great. And you can still do this, but we need you to do this too. And eventually it was like, no, now you're business development manager. Now you're going to grow this company. And I wore, you know, a dual role hat of operations and business development manager, basically from that point forward.

And, but I found my love for it again. And that was what was really interesting. It was like, It was like my whole life I've been guided towards this. This is what I've been meant to do from point go. And even when I ran away from it, I still ended up back here, but I ended up back here more passionate than ever, loving the position and finding a love for the position more than ever, realizing that, holy crap, every business needs this.

Every business needs to know these skills. And this is a skill set that I'm really good at. So why don't I teach it? But you, but I couldn't have ended up here had I actually gotten away, had I actually ran away and succeeded. You know what I mean? Like, so I do, I do believe in that. I do think that there's some divine intervention happening sometimes.

Carmen Leibel: Well, it was my gut telling me I knew that's what I needed to do. And we'll talk about it later, but as I was working in the newsroom a few years ago, my gut was telling me the same thing about moving on and being an entrepreneur and creating this business. My gut, it was, it was screaming at me. And I couldn't ignore it.

And so it's just, you follow your passion. You follow your path in life. You follow your gut instinct. Absolutely. But it was a long journey and I'll, I'll tell you. So once I got accepted into NAIT, I I have moved around a little bit working my way up the ladder within the industry as well. As you can imagine, it's, it's not an easy path to follow.

Of

Kelly Kennedy: course.

Carmen Leibel: So I worked in Yorkton, Saskatchewan. That's where I was I did my practicum. That's where you can go to the small markets to make mistakes and nobody watches.

Kelly Kennedy: All the people of Yorkton are like, Hey, Carmen.

Carmen Leibel: And then from there, it was only a few months in Yorkton. I got hired in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan.

I was a video journalist, so I would. I would write the stories. I would edit the stories and I would quickly shoot them off to Saskatoon. They would be aired in Regina as well. And some of the stories when I was in Prince Albert actually made national news, which was pretty cool.

Kelly Kennedy: That is cool.

Carmen Leibel: I know. Yeah, that was a highlight for sure. But I always wanted to work for CFRN. That's what it was called at the time. It's now CTV Edmonton. So talk about being tenacious and. Bugging people who I need to bug. But I kept calling the news director there. His name was Steve Hogel at the time.

You might even recognize his name. He's a fantastic community leader here in Edmonton. Love Steve. But and we're still friends today, but I kept bugging him and saying, Steve, hi, my name is Carmen. Would you like to hire me? I even met him when I came into town. And eventually he said, Carmen, I have a bug.

Part time writer position available. I'm like, boom, perfect. I'll take it. So I started in the newsroom with a very minimal role, but I quickly learned every single job in the newsroom. I would be a. I was a part time writer. I rolled the teleprompter for Daryl McIntyre and Carrie Dahl, who were the main anchors at the time.

I would work weekends. I was assignment desk producer. Literally every single role in the newsroom that I could take on, I would do it. Then from there, I became a video journalist as well, working weekends, covering the stories, running the camera, doing the interviews, all of that.I landed what was my dream role.

I was a health reporter and I was in charge of four minutes of health news content, which doesn't sound like a lot of time, but it actually is. And so four minutes of health news, I was in charge of producing, reporting, anchoring during our five and six o'clock newscasts, I love being a news anchor, but the health reporter gig was.

That's definitely my favorite. I got to meet incredible people, Kelly, like just sharing their stories was a true, true honor. Loved that job. And so then from there so I did that role for a couple of years and after that I knew before I left broadcast journalism that I wanted to be a news anchor.

That that was going to be my final role in the newsroom and I was given that opportunity and I was the five o'clock news anchor for a number of years and got to as well meet many, many fantastic Edmontonians and Albertans in that role. And it was. It was an honor and a privilege to be able to share the news of the day every single day, local, national, international news.

And I'm so grateful for that time because if I didn't have that path, and if I didn't spend this time in broadcast journalism, I wouldn't be where I am today empowering people of all ages to communicate with confidence. And so I'm just, I'm really grateful for the path that I've had. And I'm so, so excited about the future.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, man. Yeah, that's it's crazy. Like the lessons and like, honestly, the slogging it out that you honestly had to do to make your way to that spot. Like it didn't. It wasn't overnight, right? Like it took over 15 years. And I get you were a news anchor for probably about half that time. But at the same time, that's a long time to be in any career to get to the position that you hoped for.

Carmen Leibel: It is. It's true. And I don't even want to tell you what I made in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan.

Kelly Kennedy: A lot of friends?

Carmen Leibel: Yes. A lot of fantastic friends and many who I still speak with today. Absolutely. Fun memories. Fun memories. Thinking back to those days for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Like to me, As someone who's obviously watched a lot of news, it's like, it seems to me like it must be an incredibly challenging position.

And I think there's a lot of people who unfortunately blame the people giving them the news for the news that they're receiving. Can you tell us about maybe some of the challenging situations that you might have faced as well as some of the amazing ones?

Carmen Leibel: Yeah. I mean, the challenging ones, for example, the pandemic of course was very challenging for, for so many, so many of us, I mean, for everybody, let's be honest, but, but working on broadcast journalism at the very start of, and I don't want to dwell on the pandemic because let's move on here, but it was, we all felt like we had such an important role at the start.

And of course, and we do journalism is so incredibly important. And it. Yeah. It's a newsrooms are shrinking and I, I don't want to focus on that, but it is something that hurts my heart seeing the number of layoffs that are happening in newsrooms. But during the pandemic, we, we all had a really important role to get the information out there and to, we would be, we would Bringing the premier on live all the time and the mayor and the medical officer of health, and we were like, okay, people need to know this information.

But after, after so long, it became information that nobody wanted to hear anymore. And it, I would say it became a toxic environment. A lot of people blamed, blamed. newsrooms for the information that was going out there. So, yeah, I mean, there are a lot of challenges. It's everybody in the newsroom absolutely makes it a priority to ensure the information that is getting out there is, is non biased and is, is information that, that our community.

Needs to know some of the, some of the challenging stories I would say, once I became a mom, where are the stories that involve children, I would say, just, we're talking about news in general. I mean, some, some heartbreaking situations and you, you almost have to become, I don't want to say you want to become good at blocking it out, but you want to, you don't want to take it home.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Well, I can see the emotion on your face. Just Just chatting about this. Like, I agree. I don't know if there's a lot of people who can disassociate from things like that, right? Like, obviously, as a parent myself, if I was to hear something about a young boy being hurt, I'm going to think about my young boy.

Like, how are you able to do that? To just read the news in such like, and be able to keep totally cool. It must be incredibly hard to disassociate. I must imagine that over time, that must start to weigh on you.

Carmen Leibel: It did start to weigh on me and I would say it started, I think I was very good at it for many years.

As a health reporter, I tried my very best not to become a hypochondriac because you learn about so many different,

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I can imagine.

Carmen Leibel: It's like, I'm thirsty and tired. Do I have that?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Carmen Leibel: But it's, I think the one thing is, is, Newsrooms are incredible teams and we really all lean on each other.

There are a lot of fantastic discussions that happen in newsrooms so that we can all kind of talk about, Oh man, that's a really hard story. How are you guys doing with this? Just kind of leaning on each other. But then we became, I would say many of us, I suppose I can only speak about myself, but I became really good at.

Coming home and not dwelling on it, not thinking about it. But towards the end of my career, I don't know what happened. It, I started, it started to weigh more heavily on me and I took that as another sign, like, okay, I think it might be time to, to move on to a new adventure, one of my many signs. But I think, I think that that did play a role for sure.

Moments were sharing the stories of some incredible people. Like I followed this amazing young girl named Ava. She was unfortunately diagnosed with a brain tumor and her bucket list goal was to meet Taylor Swift or one of them. And so I followed her along and she did in fact meet Taylor Swift. And this story just went right across the country because Ava was such a sweet girl and I, I, I will never forget the people that I.

That allowed me to share their stories and those, those are the memories that I look back and remember, like fondly.

Kelly Kennedy: I love that. I think, you know, when this show is long and dead and hopefully that's a ways from now, I think that is the exact same thing that I will remember, right? It's these amazing people that I've gotten to meet along this way, like, You know, I'm not sure exactly the number that we're at as of this recording as when this releases, but I can tell you today I've interviewed 58 different people, and it's like, man, like, that has been the adventure of this whole podcast like it's not about these amazing, you know, people.

educational episodes we're always trying to put out. For me, it's so much just about being able to meet all these new people and learn their super cool journey. And it inspires me too. Like, you know, I've had plenty of times like every entrepreneur where you look up at the ceiling at night and you're stressed out and you're You're, you're having a hard time, like running a business is not easy.

We, most of us start a business because we're good at something. That did not mean that we were going to be great at business immediately. We were good at business development or we were amazing at public speaking, but turning that into a business, learning everything that goes along with that is not our expertise.

And I think a lot of entrepreneurs can feel a little bit discouraged by that because we think, Oh, you know, like, We're just, we're, we're not cut out for this, you know, we, but it's not that we weren't cut out for this. We were very much cut out for this is that there's a huge learning curve. to entrepreneurship and some can do it and some can't, but I think at the same time, it really is a learning experience and we have to be open that even though we might be great at something, we're going to have those hard times where it's like, crap, I have to learn something new here.

Heck, at the business development podcast, I'm having to learn a new, a new essentially music editor because the one that we were using before, it's not going to cut it as we move forward. So probably by the time this show has come out, I hopefully will have learned it very well, but. Man, I can tell you right now, I'm pulling what little hair I have left out.

Carmen Leibel: You're pulling your chin hair.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's what I have to learn to move forward. It's what I have to learn to take this to the next level. And I want you all to like hear this today and recognize that there are many things I suck at. There are many things as an entrepreneur that I need to develop.

And I learned something from each one of these interviews just the same as all of you.

Carmen Leibel: Yeah. That's wonderful. And your interview skills, like how are you like, how are you enjoying that being on that side of things?

Kelly Kennedy: I love it. I love it. Honestly, like for me, it's very, it's very exciting. It's been a learning curve, like I said, was I started the show talking to a wall.

Although, like, like I said, I spent a lot of time in meetings. So I feel like I was able to kind of leverage my meeting skills in order to learn interview skills. But. I can tell you that I was shaking in my boots, probably the first 15 or 20.

Carmen Leibel: I bet. I bet. Well, you're doing great. Keep it up.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. No, Thank you.

Okay. So at this point, you've spent an entire career in broadcast journalism. You've been an anchor. You've been essentially the head of the newsroom. Like that's wild. And then you had a calling like, okay, so for me, that was my question to you when we were first talking about this, I was thinking, if I spent 15 years, 16 years in a career, not just any career, like an amazing, amazing needed career, journalism, you know, working for CTV News, like, wow, first off, I can't imagine how hard.

The choice would be, especially when you could continue that, to say, okay, you know what, I might have a calling that's not this. Tell us about that moment. That must have been crazy.

Carmen Leibel: It was there were a lot of sleepless nights. I couldn't ignore, as I said earlier, the, the gut feeling that was, it was screaming at me that I needed to, To make a change.

There were so many reasons to want to leave television news. I mean, I think one of them is I felt I had honestly done every single job in the newsroom that I wanted to do. There wasn't really anything else calling me and Kelly, you're right. I quit what was essentially my dream job. It was always my dream job to end broadcast journalism and be a news anchor.

And I did that. And it is, it's, it's, it's wild to think that I, that I left what was my dream job, but I was having some issues, I suppose, with where broadcast journalism was going, newsrooms were shrinking, and I would say viewership has changed with the online world now. And we need journalists. We need television news.

So I hope that things will go in a different direction soon. Absolutely. I will be like the number one advocate for that. So many hardworking, incredible journalists in our city, in our province, and in our country, but for me, I needed a new challenge and I wanted to be creative, I wanted to be my own boss.

I wanted to do something where I felt I was making a difference in the world using the skills that I developed throughout my career. Journalism career. I also wanted to do something that I could build around my life a little bit better. I have two daughters who are very, very busy and active and I, I was starting to get really tired of coming home and everybody had had supper and they were off to their sports that wasn't working for me anymore.

And so the idea of project five really came to me during the pandemic. And yeah. I started to feel really concerned about the lack of communication skills that I was noticing with our youth. My daughters, I believe at the time of the pandemic were grade three and six, and I would see them with their social isolation and not talking to anybody.

And then we went from zero devices in our house to everyone. That's the only way that they were communicating with people. And I was like, Oh, I said to my husband, I was like, what is going to happen with our future generation here. They, they are going to be lacking these communication skills in a huge way, and public speaking isn't to become a news anchor or an emcee.

I mean, these are everyday situations in your life where you need to communicate with confidence.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes.

Carmen Leibel: So I was speaking with somebody with the city of St. Albert, cause that's where I live, and I said, you know, I'm feeling really concerned about our, our youth. I feel like I can help with the skills that I've developed throughout my career.

And she said to me, she's like, you know, Carmen, why don't you run an evening class, a public speaking class, just to test out some of your ideas. Like, Oh, thank you so much for the opportunity. Holy smokes. Wow. Okay. So we created this evening class. There was no marketing. It just lived on a website. And I was like, Oh, hopefully someone sees this before we knew it.

The class was full with a wait list.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Carmen Leibel: I know. I was like, Oh, okay. Actually the city of St. Albert, they were like, have you been talking to people about this? I was like, no, I haven't because I had my job with CTV. So I didn't want to putting that out there. I just kind of, I got approval with CTV. I was like, I'm going to be teaching this class.

And they were all good with it, but I just didn't do any marketing. So from there, I really started to test out the ideas with the kids in that class. And I, I, Couldn't believe the reaction from them. They were just literally soaking up the information. Like what you mean, this is something you can help me with.

So from there, I started to speak with a few principals because I've been on all kinds of school councils with my daughter's schools.

And I was speaking to this one in particular and I was like, don't tell me what I want to hear. I want the honest truth. I said, I've been thinking of building a program because I believe that students, kids, youth need to learn how to communicate with confidence, a public speaking program.

Is this something that you think schools would hire, would book? And he's like, Carmen, pilot this in my school. I was like, Oh, so literally a month later I was working in his school before going to work in the newsroom and nobody knew.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Carmen Leibel: I know.

Kelly Kennedy: You're like, I'm being successful, and no one knows about it.

Carmen Leibel: I had to just do this on my own, on the sly, I suppose, just to see if this was going to be a thing. And so I started working with the grade 5 students at this one school, and, They, they soaked it up as well. The teacher was excellent. The kids were growing immediately. And the junior high teacher at that same school ran up to me in the hallway and was like, please come and work with my junior highs.

And so I started to build an L a grade five and six program, a junior high program. From there, I spoke at teacher's convention. High school teachers came up to me and were like, do you have a. program for high school students. And I was like, Oh, I will. So I started to build that. Once I started to recognize, okay, this is something that is working, it's needed.

I really felt that I found a problem. And a way to solve it. And the problem being that students weren't working on this communication skill and lots of teachers were saying that kids don't want to present in front of the class. They don't even want to read in front of the class. And so I felt that I had, had really found a solution to this.

So I hired a business coach and because I'm really good at finding Coming up with the ideas and very creative. I'm so energized to, to work on this, but the business side is, is all brand new to me, Kelly. So I certainly appreciated your advice and your podcast, but so from there, as I was working with my business coach and I was really noticing that this was gaining steam, I thought to myself, okay, I have to, I can't do both here.

I can't be. Running project five in the morning as a bit of a side hustle and also working in a busy, stressful news environment. And again, my gut was saying to me, Carmen, you have to do this. You have to follow this new path. But it was hard. Of course, of course it was hard. There's the fear of failure.

There's the fear of. What if this flops? What if people don't book me? What if this business doesn't become a thing? What if I'm not good at it? Right? All of these, all of these thoughts, but I had a full fall of school bookings and I, I knew that it was my time to give it a go. And so when I went and so I, I quit in May, this was last May.

So it hasn't even been a full year yet and.

Kelly Kennedy: We're coming up on it.

Carmen Leibel: And I went, I couldn't. Speak with my news director until the end of the month, because May was insane. Unfortunately, there were all kinds of wildfires. We were going through a provincial election. So we were dealing with a debate. There was a four hour provincial election live show that we were preparing for.

And so I knew that after the election is when I was going to speak with my news director, just to, to let her know what my plan was. And I went into the, into her office after the election and I told her and she said, Carmen. I've been waiting for months for you to tell me that this is what you're doing.

Kelly Kennedy: They knew.

Carmen Leibel: Well, I had been planting the seeds, and she said, I'm not even going to fight for you to stay because I believe that you are so valuable in the community with what you're about to do.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I, and it's so, you know, I mean, you've really started out initially with your initial idea of being to help youth.

And I think that that's so critical. But I remember talking with you and saying, Carmen, there's so much more to this. Like, this isn't just a youth thing. This is like, this is a millennial thing. This is a Gen Z thing. This is, this is an everyone thing, just about like, we are all struggling. And you know, I can tell you that when I started this show, I was really afraid.

I was because I'd never had to do anything that really put myself out there in this way. I'd been in business development for years, but that was different. That was one on one lunchtime with people building these like one on one personal relationships. What was it going to be when suddenly I was talking to thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people, right?

Like I did not, I remember recording that first episode and thinking, okay, like I can, I can just quit. I can just, this doesn't have to go out there. We can just be good with this. Right. But then I did it and I put it out there and people got back to me and said, this is awesome. Do more. Like, this is really great.

This helped me this. And, and that was what I wasn't prepared for. Like some, you know, I think we all struggle thinking that we're not good enough. Or what makes us, you know, what gives us the power to go out and talk to somebody. I know that was my thing. It's like I've been doing this for many years. But what gives me the right to go out and tell people how to do business development?

Let them do it the way they want to do it. But, you know, I like to say to everybody listening to this show that if you're, if you've been doing something for any length of time, you probably know how to do it better than most. And, On some level, doesn't that make you obligated to share that information with the world?

Carmen Leibel: Yeah, yes. And I feel exactly what you're saying. And when I pass along, so I've taught myself so many tips and tricks over the years to become a more confident public speaker. The first time I MC'd an event and I saw a thousand eyes looking at me, I was terrified. The first time I was live on the air, I was terrified.

But there are, and that's normal. The nerves are normal. It's natural. It's natural. But when I pass along this advice to people of all ages, and I immediately see the growth and the nerves change, and it is, I feel like I'm. I'm doing exactly what I should be doing.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.

Like, that's exactly how I feel about this show, right? Like, I don't know what I would be doing if I wasn't doing this. Like, I'm so grateful and thankful to be able to do this, to be able to share this information, be able to have these conversations, right? We just, you know, I mean, I don't think that people recognize how lucky you are when you have a platform to be able to share from.

And I think some people just take it for granted, especially podcasters or, you know, people that are in the, not necessarily the media, but are YouTubers or like anybody who's gone out there and kind of done that and found success. I think it's easy to sit back and say, well, yeah, like, obviously we were successful.

We did it. But. You know, we wouldn't have anything if people didn't come back, right? Like, it is a privilege, not a right to be able to share this information. And I've recognized that from point go. And I think if you can come to it with that humbleness and say, you know what, I'm grateful for all of you, everyone listening right now.

We wouldn't have a platform if you didn't show up to listen, if you didn't want to hear these stories, right? It's because of you. And it's an honor to be able to do it.

Carmen Leibel: I have so many moments where I just have the biggest smile on my face, and I'm like, yep, this is why I'm doing it. I was working in a junior high, and there was a grade night, so sometimes I go into, often I go into a school for a full week.

It's called an in school residency, and I work with the students for five full days. And on the last day they present, they go through, I go take them through my five simple steps to becoming more confident communicators and on the last day they present in front of the class and this one particular, this happens every single school, but I'll, I'll explain one, one time there was a grade nine student on the first day and she was like, Oh, I can't public speak.

There's no way I'm going to do this. There's no chance. And I was like, you know what? I never forced anybody because I don't think that that is going to lead to a positive experience.

I give everybody the option, but I will tell you, Kelly, at the end of the week, most people present. But anyways, this, the student on the first day was like, there's no chance I'm, I'm not going to do this.

And I was like, you know what? Soak up the information. I will never force you just take it all in. And hopefully some things will. You know, you'll have some new tools in your toolbox come Thursday, she finds me in the hallway and she's like, this was the day before the final presentation day. And she goes, I'm not going to be at school tomorrow.

So do you think I can present my, my presentation in front of the class today? I was like, okay, so you want to do this now on Monday, but it's just her confidence was incredible to me. And I thought to myself, this is why I'm doing it. And her teacher said, This is what she needed. And this happens to me every single class that I'm in.

And it also, I noticed it with I had a CEO of a company call me because he had to give a 15 minute speech and he couldn't sleep, he couldn't sleep for weeks. And I helped him. I took him. through some steps and we worked on his presentation and he called me after his speech and said, I crushed that and I'm pretty sure I can do that again.

And I was like, yep, exactly. So it's just, it's, there have been so many moments like that where I, it's proven to me that I'm on the right path in helping people.

Kelly Kennedy: Totally, totally. And I want to spend some time there on those lessons because I think there's a lot of people, you know, executives you know, people in various jobs that just have to be forward facing with a B business development sales, they're ending up in boardrooms, they're ending up in lunch meetings, they're ending up meeting people who may scare the shit out of them.

And yet they still have to put on that brave face and do it. And I remember being that person. I'm such an introvert. as a person, and I really had to learn how to be more extroverted to do business development, which is super weird. I know that this comes across weird as like a podcaster now, but it's a learned skill.

It is not my natural space to be like I used to like to just kind of hang out by myself, go on motorbike rides, you know, build things alone like that was what Kelly did for the most part. Like I was very much I liked my time. I liked just being with me and being able to have those moments and yet as a job, I had to learn to put myself out there to be more.

Extroverted to build relationships better, and I got great at it, but it was a learned skill, not necessarily a natural skill, but I remember sitting in front of people who, yeah, like, frankly, scared the shit out of me, but there I was, I was the, I was the person to do that job, and I needed to go up and do it, and I needed to have those conversations and build a relationship.

And I remember plenty of times sitting in my truck before I went into that meeting being very nervous writing down notes. What are you know, what are some things that we can talk about? How can we prepare for this? How can we do this better? And then, and then, frankly, it being super easy. And everything that I'd done was built up this big scary monster in my head.

And yet, it was like one of the easiest meetings I could have, I could have just sat down and chatted about anything with this person. And I think so much of the time, that's what we do. We build up the thing into something that scares us so badly, and then we put ourselves in like a fight or flight scenario, and we get anxiety, we get imposter syndrome, we get all of these problems.

And yet, I'll tell you to this day, I still have those moments.

Carmen Leibel: I still do that. I still get nervous. Yeah. And I do this as a career. I still get nervous. Yeah. But the thing is, is those nerves are not necessarily a bad thing either. They, they mean that it's important to you. That it's something that you're excited about.

Right? So we can, we can take those nerves and use it as, as energy. But I like to flip the thinking because you're right. We tend to flip the thinking. Take the time before we speak or go into an interview or something. We have that negative self talk and we say, Oh my gosh, what if I suck? What if I mess up?

What if I screw up my words? I mean, we're humans. Do you think for all the time I was a news anchor, I delivered flawless newscasts? No, we make mistakes. We mess up our words and, but people forget two minutes later. So it's really important. And I talk about this with everybody that we need to flip the thinking and, Turn it into more of a positive.

I like to say that being asked to public speak is an opportunity. It is your opportunity to share something of value. It is your opportunity to share something that you're passionate about. It is your opportunity to make a difference. So rather than sitting there stewing on all the potential negatives, sit there and Remind yourself, okay, I've prepared.

Hopefully that's true. I've practiced and I've got this. If I make a mistake, it's all good. It doesn't matter. The best public speakers in the world stumble on their words. It's all good. We just need to not work it up to be such a big deal in our minds. We're not doing ourselves any good. It's a disservice.

If you go into a situation with negative. thoughts. So I really, really encourage everybody to, to flip the thinking there.

Kelly Kennedy: Why is it that when we think of public speaking, it is so scary, right? Like whether you've done it multiple times or whether it's your first time. It, it always initiates, at least for me, a feeling of, like, a feeling of, of fear, a feeling of anxiety, even though I know I'd kill it, even though I know, like, I know I can do this.

It's not about being able to do it. It's still, it still creates anxiety and fear and a hard, like a, not a good feeling. feeling inside of me. And I know that I can't be alone in this. I know that there's got to be a lot of people who struggle with that. Why is it? Why is that how we feel about it?

Carmen Leibel: It's because it's the fear of being judged.

It's the fear of what are my peers going to think about what it is I have to say. It's the fear of messing up and looking like an idiot. The fear isn't necessarily always going to be a gone, but if you have prepared and you've practiced and you've gone through some of the steps, you can recover so much more easily if you do make a mistake.

If you go into a speech or a situation and you are already flustered and going into it, not prepared and not ready and you screw up, it is really hard to recover. But if you go into a presentation, With confidence and you stumble on a word or you forget something, you can just kind of let that slide off because you know what you're doing and you can keep moving on.

So when I speak with a group, I ask everyone to rate, I'm like, who raise your hand if public speaking makes you feel a little bit nervous. I would say 95 percent of the room. Raises their hand. So, and it's, it's really important for everyone to look around and say, Oh, okay, yeah, everyone else is feeling this way too.

And you mean there are some tools that you can give me to make this better. Thank you. Jerry Seinfeld, he has a really funny quote. He says, according to most studies, people's number one fear is public speaking. Number two is death. That means the average person, if you go to a funeral, you're better off in the casket than delivering the eulogy.

Like, come on, it doesn't have to be that way.

Kelly Kennedy: You know what? I believe that. I really do. I feel like we think fairly, we're all afraid to die on some level, but at the same time, I do think we're probably more likely to end up having to public speak more often than that. So I can see why that, that might become a little more scary.

We talked about this ahead and you, you had mentioned to me, Kelly, there's five steps that we need to kind of focus on to have a successful public speaking engagement. Can we chat a little bit about what those five steps are that you teach?

Carmen Leibel: Sure. Absolutely. So I've created these five steps because these are the things that I've taught myself throughout my career.

They are, I really wanted, the reason why it's five steps and the reason why they are simple is because I want it, wanted it to be practical, actionable, easy to use and remember steps. So after I work with somebody, it's. You're not all of a sudden going to be a perfect public speaker after a workshop or a session, of course, right?

But I wanted these to be tools that you could continue using in the future. So it's prepare, practice, pace, position, and present. Prepare. You would be surprised by the number of people who do not prepare a strong opening. You need a killer opening in a presentation or a speech. If you don't go out there with a strong opening, you will risk losing your audience right off the top.

The other thing that a lot of people don't prepare is, is a good closing. Sometimes the presentations or speeches land flat and you want to have that well written rehearsed closing to your presentation as well. So you really want to prepare a strong closing because what a strong closing does is it leaves a lasting impression.

Sometimes you might want to put out a call to action. Maybe you want to reinforce your key points. So the preparation of your presentation, and it doesn't necessarily mean you're just writing it all out. Maybe it's all point form, which is fantastic too. But then it's. Step. I once read that audiences need an attention reset ever every 10 minutes, which I feel like our attention span is even less than that.

But I would say when you're preparing a presentation, you will want to plug in. Stories throughout your presentation. You want to add some humor. Maybe you want to put in a Q and A to engage your audience. Storytelling is so important when you're preparing anything. Even if it's a meeting, you want to incorporate stories, stories in your presentation, your speech.

If you're leading a meeting, make what you're saying so much more relatable and more memorable. So I can't say that enough. Storytelling is. Is really, really crucial, like think of the stories that you probably share throughout your podcast, right? People will remember these things and they will learn from your experiences and the stories throughout your presentation.

So the next one is practice. Another thing that surprises me very often is the number of people who don't practice their speeches or their presentations out loud. Is that something that you do?

Kelly Kennedy: No!

Carmen Leibel: Exactly!

Kelly Kennedy: No, I you know what? I prepare, like my podcasts, for instance. I always write down the show plan.

So, what I do is, like you said, I try to make sure that we have a pretty killer opener. I make sure that we have a good way to end off, for sure. So I'm already doing a couple of things right. Nice! But I do find that the topics for me tend to really flow. And so what I'll do is I'll put on like jot notes as to the things that I want to talk about and make sure that it's oriented in a way that I can speak to it really well.

But that's the way that I do my show plans. And then if there's something that obviously with the podcast, if there's something I want to edit, I can edit it. I don't have that like, I have to be killer right there in that moment. I can always make it sound killer later. That is like a bit of an unfair advantage to recording your stuff.

Carmen Leibel: Very good. Makes sense. You'll probably be cutting some of the things that I say.

Kelly Kennedy: But, but I'm having to do more live events. I have a few coming up. I have more situations where I am going to have to walk myself through when I stumble as opposed to, and I do feel like my natural ability will be to just keep going.

But I can tell that when I do my individual shows, my more go to is to either pause and make a change to the topic or to just pause and recollect and do it. But on one hand, that helps me, but on the other hand, I have to kind of unlearn that for when I'm doing something more public.

Carmen Leibel: Yeah, I had somebody once say, Tell me this was a, one of my corporate clients, he didn't want to sound too rehearsed, so he didn't want to practice it out loud.

And I said, well, that's actually the wrong way of thinking about it. The more you practice, the more comfortable and confident you will be in your delivery. If we don't practice it out loud, we don't sound how our presentation or we don't hear how our presentation Or speech sounds, so the flow could be off or you could miss some details.

The more you say it out loud, the more confident you will be come the day of your presentation. I promise.

Kelly Kennedy: Do you do the whole thing? Like. From start to finish or just like do you practice just parts of it?

Carmen Leibel: The whole thing. The whole thing. I practice my presentations. For example I'll speak for an hour at teacher's convention.

I stand in my kitchen and I pretend that I'm presenting to the entire audience. The other thing that's really important, Kelly, with practicing is yes, practicing, saying it out loud, because the more you share your stories out loud, the more concise you will be sometimes we tend to ramble and it's like, Oh, I need to shorten that.

Okay, let me try that again, right? Because you want to be, you want to be nice and tight with your messaging very often. But when I'm practicing, for example, in my kitchen, I'm also practicing, and this is going to sound ridiculous, my eye contact, because very, very often people have a hard time engaging with different parts of the room, connecting with different people in the room, and it makes a huge.

Difference when you are connecting with different people in the audience, I'm connecting with someone to the left. And when I'm connecting eyes with that one person, the whole room can feel it. And then I'm looking in the middle and then I'm looking to the right, but it actually does take practice. And this is a big thing that I find a lot of people have a hard time with because it is nerve wracking, connecting eyes with someone.

Some people are worried like, Oh, what if they're, Not interested in what it is that I have to say, well, then you move to the next set of eyes, but I often stand in the living room and I practice my presentation. I look to the left. I look to the right. And it is something that does need to be thought about and it doesn't need to be.

Practice, a friend of mine, she went to a conference and she was listening to a guest speaker and this guest speaker must've been pretty nervous because instead of making eye contact with different people in the room, they looked over top of everyone's heads and just stared at the back wall. But my friend who was at this conference said, I had absolutely no idea what that person said.

I mean, they never felt engaged. And so this person could have delivered the most amazing message in the world. And no one felt engaged and therefore most people probably don't remember it.

Kelly Kennedy: You know, I, I actually can see why you would want to do this. The more that I think about it, if you're having to just kind of make it up as you go, it's going to be really hard to be able to engage with your audience and make it up at the same time.

Like our brains are just not wired that way.

Carmen Leibel: Yeah, you don't want to be, you don't want to wing it, don't think of it on the fly because there's so much that you need to think about when you're public speaking, your posture, how you stand, the pacing of your voice, the projection of your voice, engaging with the audience, delivering strong messaging, having a killing, killer opening.

It's just, there's so much to think about, there really is. Absolutely. Always, always, always practice your presentation out loud and pretend you're looking around the room because you want to go through the motions.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Okay. Well, you've changed it. I am 100 percent going to be doing that. How many times do you recommend to practice ahead of the speech?

Carmen Leibel: So for me, and what I suggest is Practice it as many times as you need to feel really comfortable and confident. So, let's say I'm, again I'll go back to teacher's convention and I'm speaking in front of a few hundred people. I will start to kind of prepare my notes, I'll tweak my opening, I'll tweak my closing.

I practice the opening and closing by themselves a lot. Just on their own. I am driving to the event and I'm reminding myself as I'm driving what my opening is. But it really starts to ramp up. I'd say a week or so, two weeks before and then I'm really doing a good rehearsal the day before and if I have time the morning of just of the parts that I'm like, Oh, I feel like I need to like go over that one more time.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow. So it could be, it could be like 10 times.

Carmen Leibel: It could be. It depends on the event. It depends on how long you're speaking for. It depends on the content, how comfortable you are with it. If it's something you're really excited and passionate about, maybe you don't need to practice it as much. So it's just, it, I mean, it varies, but make sure it's enough time.

Give yourself enough time so that you are going into this being like, I got this.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay, you really want to be that comfortable, hey?

Carmen Leibel: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay, I can see how this can really, because by the time you've practiced your speech, whether it be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour, by the time you've practiced it 10 times, you should probably know it pretty inside and out.

Carmen Leibel: You should. I don't even want to know. Actually, no. Let me change that. I do want to know how many times the speakers who give TED Talks practice their 15 minute speeches. I would say a hundred times.

Kelly Kennedy: You know what one got, or like what I'm thinking right now is when they have the elections and they have to prepare a winning speech and a concession speech.

I imagine that's got to be kind of tough to remember both of those.

Carmen Leibel: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I bet they practice that a lot.

Kelly Kennedy: I never realized that it was that much, that there was that much effort that goes into a speech. And, okay, so now it's got me kind of questioning this. I get it. I see the reasoning behind it.

Do you write out your entire speech word for word and end up memorizing that? Like, because I can imagine that if you're writing out a word for word speech that's an hour long, and you're trying to memorize it word by word, that to me sounds like Wow. I don't want to do that.

Carmen Leibel: Okay. For me for example, there's a few different scenarios, but I actually don't write out my presentations ever. I write out my lead. So my opening line because I want to kind of tweak it, make sure it flows. But most of the time I have a presentation that goes along with it for visuals, which is a whole other topic.

But yeah. The visuals, when I click to the next slide, I know exactly what I want to say.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Okay.

Carmen Leibel: So that kind of triggers my next topic or my next focus. I see the next slide. Okay. Now I know exactly what I want to say here. Next slide. And then it just really helps with the flow of the presentation.

Visual cues. Yeah, huge. Some people though have cue cards and just point form. And so then they know they look down at their little cue card just as a guide of flow of okay, what's my next bullet point that I know I want to hit. And so that, that is really helpful for many people because if you have it written out in, Big paragraphs.

You're constantly looking down and trying to read. So point form really is helpful because you want to have a conversational delivery when you are speaking in front of an audience. But if you're just reading, then it sounds like you're reading.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, it does. Yes, it does. I can agree completely. I think this is hilarious, because what you're telling me is what I've actually been doing for my podcast shows completely by accident.

But I totally like what you're saying, like, write out your intro, make sure it's good, write out your accent, make sure it's good to have your talking points in jot form. That is how I've been doing the business development podcast since day one out of complete accident.

Carmen Leibel: Kelly, crushing it.

Kelly Kennedy: Awesome. No, that's amazing.

I guess it's funny because I think about it from that standpoint in the exact same way. I don't always know what I'm going to say to the point. I know what I want to kind of touch on. But when I lay it out in those cue card topics, You know, it's easy for me to go through the flow and I don't sound like a robot.

I mean, you can tell, like you said, you can tell a podcaster who is reading from a sheet or a prompter and you can tell one who is speaking from experience. And I always wanted to be one that speaks from my own experience. And that was the best way that I found to be able to do that.

Carmen Leibel: And when it comes to interviews too, you are, you are going with the flow of the conversation.

So for me, as an interviewer for many years, I would write out some of the questions that I wanted to ask, but it depends on the answers. And it just, it flows from there.

Kelly Kennedy: Like you said, it's only if it makes sense. And that was something that I learned as well in the interview, is to go with the flow, because it's so much easier to go with the flow and then touch on the next topic when it becomes available than to try to force something that doesn't make sense.

And I see that too in podcasting a lot where people have this set question list that they try to hit every time, but guys, it doesn't work every time.

Carmen Leibel: No. The other thing that I wanted to make a mention of that people have a hard time with is the pacing of their voice. So when we're nervous, we tend to speed up.

Our voices so much. And what is the point of listening to a public speaker? If you can't understand anything that it is, they're saying, so it's so important to really consciously. So when we're preparing and we're practicing out loud, slow down the pacing of our voice. Pause for effect. That is a huge thing that you could add into your presentation, but.

It's, it's very natural and normal when we're up in front of an audience to, I've had some people say they purposefully sped through their presentation because they were too nervous and they just wanted to get it over with.

Kelly Kennedy: Yep. That sounds like the first time I had to do public speaking. I remember that I had to speak to my college and I remember going in and just being like sweating bullets.

I was sweating. I was nervous. My anxiety was through the roof and I just wanted to get it over with. So I get it. And you know what? Like, I don't know. I don't know like the techniques to be able to really slow that down. Because like you said, once you end up in that space in that headspace, it's really hard to back it off.

What I did find in that speech was the longer I did it, the more calm and relaxed I got. But those first like minutes, my gosh, I just wanted them to be over. And I wonder for you, what are some of those techniques that, and I get by the time you've done it, you know, a hundred times for you, it's just another day at work, but, but at the same time, is that the only way forward?

Is it only repeating that uncomfortable situation over and over and over again that eventually reduces that anxiety?

Carmen Leibel: Do you know what's really interesting is I spoke at NAIT not that long ago, and I had a student reach out to me after saying that the biggest issue for him was the pacing of his voice.

And he put the steps into action that, that I spoke about when I was working at NAIT. And he said his presentation marks previously were 60%. After going through these five simple steps, you got a 95 and a 100. presentation. He said that the pacing of his voice was a huge thing and he wanted to get it over with. And the reason why the pacing of his voice the next time was so much better was because he went into the presentation with more confidence.

So You are, the nerves aren't there as much. You don't want to rush through it. You feel more comfortable and confident with what it is that you're about to say. And the thing is, is I'm the same way. So when I go into a presentation, just like you said, you're kind of like, the nerves are really there right off the top.

But if you go in there with that killer opening and you crush it, you're like, okay, I got this because.

Kelly Kennedy: You're like, you're literally preparing for your future success. If you can kill that first part, the rest flies by.

Carmen Leibel: It does. It does.

Kelly Kennedy: My gosh. I've learned so much here. I've learned so much from you, Carmen.

This has been amazing. And I think there's so many people who are like, holy crap. I never thought of it that way. I never thought like if you can do the preparation and you can really nail it, this is why, because if you can get more confident by having that preparation nailed down, You can focus more on the pacing of your speech.

You can focus more on making connection with your audience. You're not having to like deal with so much in that moment. You can take some of those things off your plate, which just make it easier for you.

Carmen Leibel: Absolutely. And the fourth one is position because how we stand our body language says so, so much about us.

There's a really great quote from a Dr. Amy Cuddy who gives this fantastic TED talk. Her TED talk she says that 50 percent of a first impression is around body language. 50%. So that is right down to how you walk onto the stage in front of your audience, right? How you walk into a room, for a job interview, how you stand, your posture.

It's so easy to fiddle when we're up there, when we're presenting, we might want to play with our hair or clothes because we're feeling really nervous. So really thinking about it, and it does go down to this, thinking about the scenario of where you're about to speak. Okay. Do I have a podium? How am I going to be speaking?

Standing at this podium. What should I wear to ensure that I feel comfortable when I'm up there? Okay, I'm doing this interview and I'm going to be sitting. How should I sit? How should my posture be? How am I going to walk out there? I mean, I, I think it is so important to really think right down to that detail because walking onto that stage with that posture and I have a.

I have students, I have people of all ages, I show them how to stand at a podium. I show them what we need to do with our feet. Hand gestures, people ask me all the time, they're fantastic. Hand gestures do so much. They really make a speech more compelling. And we naturally use our hands quite a lot when we're excited about something.

That is all good during a speech too. So I think it's really important for people to understand what our body language is saying to our audience. Even if you are feeling nervous and you want to, like, hunch over and walk on like, Oh, I don't want to do this. Fake it. Yeah. Yeah.

Fake it till you make it up there.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, man. Yeah. No. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, it's, it is. It's so critical. And I just think of, like, the impact of being able to speak well and how far that can take you in anything that you want to do. Right. It doesn't matter whether you're, you know, Just an executive trying to get that next position or whether you're a student looking to just make a big impact at something you're doing for a rally or something along those lines, or you're a news anchor, you know, changing the world like.

It is one of those things that we're so afraid of, yet, if you can harness it, if you can figure out how to do it, it is probably one of the most impactful skills that you will ever have.

Carmen Leibel: Yeah, Warren Buffett had a really great quote. He says you can improve your value by 50 percent just by learning communication skills, public speaking, and it's true.

If you're, you know, a leader and you can effectively share something with your team, there are so many situations in your life where you are going to need to use your voice and where you are going to get to use your voice. And that's why it doesn't matter your age. You could be in grade four. You could be the CEO of a company.

This is something that is, it is really crucial to work on. And there are all kinds of tips and tricks that you can learn to make it easier. It's the truth. I love how you said before it's a learned skill because you're right. It's absolutely a learned skill. Most people are not born to be naturally born public speakers.

We, so many people have this fear and the good news is that there's a way to, to make it easier. For sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. Well, lead us in, lead us into the last step. Step five.

Carmen Leibel: Okay. So the last one is present, prepare, practice, pace, position, and present. And the importance of present is. This is something that you and I touched on a little bit earlier, the importance of changing our mindset.

So I really think it's important to speak with people about how we need to change the thinking from being negative into positive. We really need to, Recognize that being able to speak in front of an audience, public speaking is an opportunity. And so instead of going into a situation with those nerves and telling ourselves, you know what, what if I suck?

What if I make a mistake? We need to switch that thinking because positive mental thoughts are really, really crucial to successful public speaking. So I encourage everybody to, to. Take a few minutes before an event, before you're speaking, before a presentation, before a job interview and really like close your eyes.

And it sounds so simple. It is simple, but it has a huge impact. Take a deep breath and give yourself a pump up. Okay, I've prepared. I've practiced. I've got this. I was speaking with I presented to a group of high level hockey players because as leaders. In their, in their field, they do interviews and they want to do more public speaking, but it is something that is a huge fear.

And I said to them, I said, what do you do before a big game? Cause there are nerves there too, right before you head out onto the ice. And they said, well, we take five deep breaths as a team. And I said, okay. Public speaking is no different right before you go out onto the stage or in front of that mic, close your eyes, take those deep breaths and say, okay, I've got this because before they go out to a game, they're like, we're going to crush this.

We're going to, we're going to win and say the same thing. Public speaking is the same. You need to put yourself in that, in that mindset because. You're not doing yourself any favors if it's the opposite.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. It's like you have to set that like ritual.

Carmen Leibel: You do. Absolutely. It has to become habit. The first time I really noticed this is when I was delivering the eulogy for my grandma's funeral.

And I wanted, I wanted to do a good job. My grandma was a stickler for grammar and punctuation, and I really wanted to go out there and deliver an impactful speech, but I was so nervous. I was in my early twenties and there are so many people in the audience who meant a lot to me. And I closed my eyes right before I went up there and I was like, okay.

I've prepared what it is. I have to say, I have practiced and I'm going to do this for you, grandma. And I really closed my eyes and I took that moment to myself and I went onto this, onto, in front of the mic and I delivered the message. A really beautiful eulogy. And I was so proud of myself and I thought, Whoa, that mental shift for myself made a huge difference.

And I've been doing that ever since. And it's, it's an absolute habit. And I pass that along to everyone because it does make a difference.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, I I agree. I agree. You know, I used to before I started the show and I still do it before my individual shows is I just cranked the intro to the show and I listened to it once or twice with the like loud rock music and it just gives me that little bit of, okay, we can do this.

It gives me that little boost, that energy boost that I need to do this show in the way that I want to do it. So I have mine, but you know what? I haven't made a good one for my interviews yet. So maybe I need to like work on that a bit, but I get energized just by being here. I just love to have these conversations.

So it's not as hard for me. Mind you, by the time you've done 58, it's like you said, it's another day at work, right? But at the same time, it is one of those things where I can see the power of ritual. I can see the power of having that. That pump up because for me and my individual shows, I don't have this.

I don't have this to look forward to or this energy from another person to be able to kind of bounce it off, right? And so I need that thing to get me going. And maybe somewhat that is what you need when you're doing a speech because you need to carry that energy right off the bat. It's not as easy to be able to feed it in from the audience.

Carmen Leibel: Kelly, and I have seen the biggest smile on your face throughout this whole interview. I can just tell you're energized and you love what you're doing. So, ah, that's awesome.

Kelly Kennedy: No, this has been super, super awesome. And I want to spend a little bit of time now because we're talking to a big entrepreneur, executive audience, people who are having to put themselves in some pretty important situations when it comes down to public speaking, whether that be their next presentation in front of the board, whether that be getting in front of all their employees and chatting about the next big thing.

And I know that if I've struggled with it and you've struggled with it, And I mean, I'm not afraid to say it. There's a lot of people out there who are like, Okay, yeah, I need some help with this. Right? This was not what I'd planned for. I, you know, I think most business owners, like I said, they didn't expect to be where they're at.

They were great at something. And eventually their company grew and grew and grew. And they became, you know, the CEO, the president of a big. A big corporation and everything that comes along with that. And they need a little bit of help. Can we just speak a little bit to what your program is like and chat to them and let them know what you can do for them?

Carmen Leibel: Absolutely. So, I mean, there are, there are certainly a few different options. Some people like to bring in Project 5 for the entire Staff and I run public speaking workshops. It's really a team building exercise, but then obviously giving a lot of fantastic takeaways it's really interactive, letting people get up there, use their voices.

It's always, there's always a lot of laughs. But I take people in that environment through the five simple steps. And then at the very end, I have everyone present in front of the group.

Kelly Kennedy: Without, without practice?

Carmen Leibel: They get, they get practice. I give everyone practice time. It's like, it's like taking public speaking and then shrinking it.

And it's like, okay, let's go speed public speaking, I guess you could say. But the feedback has been fantastic. And then. From there, a lot of people want the one on one approach, and it depends for everybody. If somebody is preparing for to be a keynote speaker, we can work one on one on that. Or if it's just a Public speaking nerves and jitter jitters as a whole.

Absolutely. We can do one on one sessions virtual I've been doing or in person. I worked with an Olympic gold medalist who has is speaking across the country and really, really wanted to not kind of ramble and go off topic, just kind of hone in on the messaging and deliver that impactful opening.

And we did some fantastic things. And now she's just like out there. Totally crushing these speeches. Yeah. So there are, there are a lot of different option options. I like to go with whatever goals people have and if they have a specific presentation or a keynote speech or just in general, want to work on their skills, there are, there are a lot of really great options.

And I will say the feedback and the growth that I noticed every single time means a lot to, to see. And I'm like, yeah, this is why I'm doing it.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Amazing. And I know that there are people listening who may want to get ahold of you. What's the best way for them to get ahold of you, Carmen?

Carmen Leibel: So I have a website, projectfive.ca.

You can find me on Instagram project five.ca. And then I'm also Carmen Leibel on LinkedIn and L-E-I-B-E-L.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today, Carmen. This has been a really cool experience. I really enjoyed having this conversation with you. And I think we've helped a lot of people, and I think you will continue to help a lot of people.

I think what you're doing is incredibly commendable and needed, and I wish you the best of luck. Until next time, this has been episode 160 of the Business Development Podcast, and we will catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been The Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization Is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.