Talk to Industry with Connor Nichols

Talk to Industry with Connor Nichols

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 104 of the Business Development Podcast. And on today's expert guest interview, we are interviewing Connor Nichols, CEO of CBN Marketing in Edmonton. And today we are chatting about marketing and tips for young entrepreneurs. Stick with us. You're going to love this episode.

Intro: The great Mark Cuban once said business happens over years and years.

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world. You'll get expert business development, advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps.

You'll get actionable advice. On how to grow business brought to you by capital business development, capitalbd.ca. Let's do it. Welcome to the business development podcast. And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello. Welcome to episode 104 of the business development podcast. It's an absolute pleasure today to be on with Connor Nichols.

Connor Nichols is the Dynamic CEO and owner of CBN Marketing in Edmonton. He is a marketing enthusiast whose journey began during his pursuit of a BBA degree at NAIT. Mentored by Professor Teresa Sturgis, he founded CBN Marketing in January of 2023, leveraging a passion for marketing and a commitment to independence and hard work that was instilled by his upbringing.

Connor's agency thrives with over 25 accounts and 10 plus team members, all achieved through strategic networking. A recognized community leader. Connor has received accolades such as the Twin Brooks Community Spirit Award and a silver medal from the Duke of Edinburgh Award. Notably, he was a finalist at the 2023 YEG Startup Community Awards, nominated for New Startup of the Year and Connector of the Year.

Born and raised in Edmonton, Connor actively gives back through volunteering with organizations like the Twin Brooks Community League, the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce, Wayfinders Business Cooperative, Junior Achievement, and various startup initiatives. Beyond his professional and community engagement, Connor is a dedicated educator, sharing insights on business development and marketing.

When not immersed in the marketing world, he finds joy in playing sports, exploring the outdoors, bartending, and pursuing new adventures. Connor's three pronged commitment to entrepreneurship, community service, and education showcases a well rounded individual whose impact extends far beyond the digital marketing realm.

Connor, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today.

Connor Nichols: Well, thanks for having me, Kelly. And also thanks to having me on the podcast. And I'm really excited about the success that you've been having with this podcast. I've been hearing a lot of great things, so it's really nice to be part of this group.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, first off, thank you. Yeah, it's, it's an absolute pleasure. It's a pleasure to have actually met you. We met through the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce. Actually the Edmonton Chamber put on an event at the OEG, the Oilers Entertainment Group, and we had a booth there and Connor came by and we had a great conversation and it was, it was awesome.

And actually, we'll get into it later, but Connor has a twin brother. So I actually thought he came by twice at first, but I caught on real quick that there was two of you.

Connor Nichols: Wow. Hey, I've never heard that before. Kelly. I've never heard that before. Yeah, it's, it's something I've never heard before. So yeah, it was awesome, dude.

Kelly Kennedy: And you know, one of the things that stood out about you almost immediately was your outgoingness was the way that, you know, you were able to just approach and have a great conversation. There was no fear. You know, you, you could tell that you'd done this like a million times. And you know, I can, I can smell a business development and marketing person a mile away and yeah, you definitely fit the bill.

Connor Nichols: Well, you can thank my parents for that. Cause literally when I was like two or three years old, my parents could tell you this. I had to be in front of company all the time. And I was that like two, three year old kid said, hi, my name is Connor Nichols and having to first and last name sounding like a formal gentleman.

All I needed was a suit and tie on, and then I would look perfect for the occasion.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. You know, some people are just naturals at it. I actually had a show recently on positivity and what we were talking about was just, you know, some people are just boring, super positive. And I definitely see that about you.

I see, I see a glass half full kind of guy when I talked to you, Connor. So I knew, I knew kind of in our conversations, you are the youngest guest we've ever had.

Connor Nichols: I guess I am. I, like I said, like I, I don't look at it that way. I I usually look at it as, as, you know, being part of this podcast is always intriguing and and supporting all these entrepreneurs and trying to help out people.

And that's actually what we're trying to do here today is educate people and make that difference. So that's really what matters.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I guess what I'm getting at with this is, is that you have accomplished a lot for your age. You're 23, right?

Connor Nichols: Yes. 23.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, you have done a lot. That's what I was getting at.

It wasn't it wasn't a hit on your character at all. It was honestly saying that you have accomplished so much in your time that you deserve to be here. That was what I wanted to kind of reiterate in this show is that you have so much to bring to this conversation. Even in my conversations with you, your knowledge truly shone through.

And so no, it wasn't a hit at all. It was honestly a congratulations on your success at your age. I wish that I had accomplished what you have accomplished. at your age.

Connor Nichols: Well, like I said, it's that's hilarious to mention, but you know, I always look at it as like you said, that glass is half full. Well, ages, of course, it's just a number, but no, I appreciate it, Kelly.

And, you know, I, again, I like to have fun with this, so I'm, I'm always poking the bear with people. It's always fun.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yes, yes, it is. No, it's I think what it comes down to is, You know your commitment to what you do and it really shines through your commitment to marketing and excellence really shines through and I feel like you have a commitment to excellence.

that most people don't find until their 30s. So congratulations. I think, you know, you're on an amazing life track. There's a reason that I brought you on the show today because I think you have lessons for our listeners. And yeah, I just, I want to get into it, but I just wanted to start off by saying congratulations.

You know, you, you are the youngest guest we've ever had on the show. However, you deserve to be here. This is 100%. Where you deserve to be at this point in time. So congratulations and thank you for coming.

Connor Nichols: Well, thank you very much. And let's definitely excited to teach people some interesting tricks and and youngest guests, I guess.

It's really cool to be part of that crowd. I'm excited for it.

Kelly Kennedy: Very cool. So take us back to the beginning, Connor, you know like I've, what I've found with most of our entrepreneurs is that they don't just become entrepreneurs. They've been entrepreneurs since they were like six years old. Tell me your story.

Connor Nichols: Okay. So I have not been an entrepreneur since I was six years old, but I'll get started with it. So I'm born and raised in Emmett and my parents, Shawna and Cam Nichols. I would say they're both, I would say. My background was very, consisted of a lot of sports in my, in my family, so a lot of competition a lot of hard work.

Again, when you have Gen X parents like myself, you, you kind of have this mentality of like this, you better work hard for everything you have. And I remember my dad saying that all the time. It's like, if you, if you're going to do something, you better put 100 percent effort in. And if you don't, then it's, then it's not done accomplished.

Or it's not accomplished at all. So that was kind of the mindset that I had, even at like three or four years old was this kind of hard work ethic, this hard mindset I find with, with the way I was raised to, again, my twin brother, Brett, it was a little bit of an interesting background because since my brother and I were twins for a majority of like my childhood life.

My brother and I would socialize together. And even though that there was a lot of great things that were involved in that, unfortunately with twins, identical twins, they tend to delay personally quite early in certain features such as social. So you were talking about how socially I'm great at all this stuff.

It didn't start that way again, because during my childhood, my brother and I would be socializing together and we kind of had our own kind of language. That's very common for identical twins. So it was pretty difficult for us to socialize with kids in school right at the start. And that was definitely a struggle.

And. I, I would say like that's kind of what started kind of everything. So while we were in kind of school, my brother and I, we were kind of grew up together. We did everything together from playing together, going on vacations together, going on road trips together, and you know, and if my brother was here today, I would just, I'd give him a big hug 'cause, you know 'cause of that love that we have for each other.

So basically. Elementary school was kind of a time where it was important to me that school was going to be something that I was going to be focusing on my education. I think that's also because my mother was a former school teacher herself. She was a former elementary school teacher, so she kind of put this kind of, like, stick in saying, you know, you got to focus on your education.

You got to You got to focus on getting good grades and focus on creating good habits. If anything, it was about creating good routines and good habits, which is something that's really important, especially in entrepreneurship. So we did that. I remember she used to give out like math. Math minutes, those math minutes sheets, and she would like time me, it was kind of funny.

But you know, that's, that was great because it taught me how to think fast, mental math fast. And that's why even now when, when I'm asked about mental math, I could do something like that. So because of those methods that she taught me. Now, after elementary school, went to junior high. So I went to Vimy Ridge Academy.

So that's a sports academy within Edmonton. So I grew up basically in a sports world. So hockey players like Sam Steele played there. Even like HL players like Nolan Volcan, Carter Hart played at Vimy when I was there. So there was a, oh yeah, even Kirby Doc was there for a year. So there were a lot of like form athletes that were in this school.

So being in someone that was more on the educational then more athletic, even though athletics are a huge part of my life. It was very interesting for sure, because you get to really see kind of a different point of view of things because these athletes are focusing on their sport every single day.

So the amount of dedication that they have and the amount of commitment they have is extraordinary. So you kind of learn that you kind of, and you're kind of like admire that kind of work ethic. And since that was kind of. Not as high in skill as maybe those other athletes. I had to work harder. So it wasn't, it was honestly not even a choice.

It was either I don't work as hard and don't get any benefit or work harder than everybody else to get the pure benefit. So that's just kind of what started this kind of drive, this hunger. That I have still today is just the fact that I had to work harder to improve myself and that, that's kind of what happened on the course of junior high and high school was just dedicating myself to that.

And in the meantime, when I was in high school at Vimmy I had a teacher that recommended me the Duke of Edinburgh award, which he thought would be a good idea because the Duke of Edinburgh award, it focuses on community impact, which. I was already helping out my community since I was 10 years old because my mother is my mother worked in the community and helped out the community.

And my dad did too, with the outdoor rink, we've been helping out that ring for years. It started off with a hose with a fire hydrant to now is Zamboni it's crazy how things have changed. So with that, we, we started off with this Duke of Edinburgh ward because. Not only that, you could also have a sport initiative with it, too.

You could put drivers training in there, all these different kind of things. So, since my brother and I were very active, it was, it just, it seems like a no brainer to help out within the community. So. In my last year in high school, we, my brother and I both received the Duke of Edinburgh award and, you know, it's a high achievement, but I got to thank everybody involved in that process, including my parents, driver instructors, my instructors at Vimy and everybody involved in that because without them, it wouldn't have been possible.

Now my last year in high school is really important because I had a counselor, her name I had a counselor who really kind of focused on kind of helping me through school. And you know what? I had no clue what I wanted to do. Point blank, like I had no clue. I just thought, Oh, my dad went to NAIT for instrumentation.

I'm going to go to NAIT. And my counselor said, Oh yeah, maybe you should. Try business because it's kind of have a whole overall thing and I'm like, yeah, I'll take the degree. I didn't even know NAIT had a degree because it was always known as having double diplomas and such Yeah, and nothing on nothing bad against NAIT because I love NAIT and you're going to hear that a lot soon here but That's what happened.

So I went into NAIT business basically for a recommendation, not really knowing where I was going. Cause again, when you, when you're 17 years old, at the end of the day, like you don't really know what you want to do. And you know, you can even say that on my age sometimes like it's, it's, it's, it just depends.

So now I went to NAIT and NAIT business, and that was, it was, it was a crazy reality check right off the start because being accustomed to so many different types of people, because I went to an athlete school and even though athlete schools are great, because you meet so many different people, they all have the same background.

So, then when you go to NAIT everybody's different. So it was a really interesting challenge and but also a really good idea to kind of learn how to adapt and talk to many people with different values, different mindsets. It was really excellent for that, and I think that that actually really taught me even today how to adapt to personalities and how to kind of, you know, keep conversation.

So while I was at NAIT took a marketing course and Teresa Sturgis was my professor who today I feel is a huge catalyst to my career. She, I thought was very interesting because she used to work for a lot of different industrial partners, such as TELUS and the PR side. So she had huge, a huge background.

And she, she's a huge networker. Like if you were talking about how the other day, Kelly, we were talking, you said how you thought I was a super networker. Well, Teresa is the networker. I mean, she knows everybody in the advertising industry, everything. And she'll even, she won't say that because she's, she's humble, but I'm going to give her that credit today.

And she, she just intrigued me to it, just the way she was, Doing her lessons. Cause it was industry focused. And I remember popping up to her and I said, you know what, Teresa, I find you at this very interesting. Let's grab a coffee together. I'd like to learn more. What do you have to say? So we did that and we talked for, I think, I don't know, a couple hours, just kind of like what the marketing field is like, what the programs are and.

It was weird. It was a surreal moment because right at that moment, I realized like, this is what I wanted to do. It just, it just aligned with everything because it involves so much business development, relationship building, and it involves helping people. It involves, you know, messaging, communication, all of that.

And that just to me really is intrigued me throughout my life. So. I went into the marketing program and the 1st year into it because it was my 2nd year at Nate. There was a lot of industry presentations we had to do. We had to talk in front of Finning, Ledcor. We had to do a promotional campaign for our clients.

So my and we had a team for that and. It was very, very interesting. And then what happened was the pandemic hit. So when the pandemic hit, it was very, it was a tough time for everybody, I feel. But the way I kind of looked at the pandemic was, you know, there's a lot of this things that are difficult, but where can I see the positive in it and find a way to improve myself for the pandemic?

Yeah. So, With that, with school, since I'm quite an independent person, because as I taught about earlier, how my parents kind of taught these values, it was, it was a little bit different for me to adapt because that's just my personality, this independence. So going for school was not. Super difficult in my opinion the overall atmosphere then kind of changed And that took quite a bit to adapt So like even what we're doing today with online that probably wouldn't even be a discussion a few years ago Yeah so so that was just a huge kind of change But that school really taught me kind of how to set up meetings online all the zoom links, the right audio, everything.

It teaches you a lot. So we did the promotional campaign planning class, which is building a promotional campaign for a client. And we did a not for profit organization that helped kids ride bikes that had disabilities. So again, it's about helping out that community. So not for profits are kind of where I kind of got started in my career.

So. Right after that class happened, we did some extra help with them to help with their organization, and that really taught me a lot about dealing with people and understanding the agency world. That class in general, a lot of the components from it are things that I still use today. So, it was very intriguing.

So, while I was in classes I remember just walking down to Whyte Ave, kind of during the pandemic, and just seeing how bare it is seeing how many businesses that were closing down. And yeah, it was, it was difficult to see. So I kind of said to myself, I'm like, what can we do something about this to help organizations that are in trouble during the pandemic and try to market themselves during the pandemic?

So again, with that too, I was trying to find a job during the pandemic. Other employers saying, you know, you have to build your portfolio, build your portfolio, build your portfolio. And because the stubborn person I am, I said, well, you know what, if you, if they want me to build my portfolio, I will. So I started off CBN marketing as a, just a training, me helping as.

Essentially as a consultant to other companies during the pandemic to help the market themselves. And that's kind of how it started. It started as just a quick reaction to something. Cause that's just how I am. I'm a doer, not a thinker. And that it's kind of maybe like similar to what my dad is. Like if he saw a little like dent on the wall, it would irk him for like three hours.

And he's just like, you know, I'm going to fix this. That's kind of how I am with this kind of stuff as well. It's. It's that overall, like you, you of course can't, you don't fix it if it's not broken, but in this case, we were seeing that there were some underlying issues and challenges that definitely needed to be mitigated.

And I wanted to help out people. And that's kind of where this kind of firm started overall. Definitely very exciting. Definitely. It was definitely a learning experience, especially someone who started at I think it was 20 when I started, so 19 or 20, somewhere in there. So it's pretty interesting when you go to these businesses and they see my 15 year old looking face talking to these business owners about their marketing.

Right. So there was a lot of adapting that needed to be done to ensure that that was taken care of. Now. Then pandemic kind of started to loosen a little bit still kind of had my train name, you know, trying to finish school graduated in 2022. it doesn't seem like a lawyer a long time. But to me, it feels like a long time.

So now. After when I graduated, worked at an agency as the strategic director. I guess you could say it was a happy time as one of the younger strategic directors in the industry. So, I mean, don't want to toot my own horn, but it was very exciting. Got to meet a lot of interesting people, finding leads, helping with strategies and working with a ton of big clients.

There are a few people to mention that I, I'd like to mention here in this podcast of people I've met. Dion Apio. Who I see as my men, one of my mentors, he's, we met through treaty eight. He helps me with a lot of things, including my development and journey. He, and, and anything to do with indigenous relations.

So he's been huge with that. I met even people during pitch nights, like Derek Nolt from the CEO of BladeFlex, who is a posture training system. He's been phenomenal. Just got to meet him at pitch night and now we've been pretty good and. talking all the time now, and it's been very interesting for sure on that front.

Got to meet, I think when I, my, my time I was there, we, we, I think we've probably met over a thousand people during that time, because when you're in front of a bunch of people, you learn pretty quick how to network. Yeah. Now, now going back a little bit in my journey, Networking, I would say for my career was a big part of my journey because well, Nate is very known for having a lot of networking events.

And during my first year I went to over 20 networking events. I said, you know what? I got to meet people. And you could say it was the energy that I had while I was in the sports school that allowed maybe me to do that. But trust me, I was rough for the first couple of years. I was, I was not. I would call myself not very good at it, but, you know, practice makes perfect.

Right? So went to 20 plus networking events still. It's still meeting with the people that I still met with years ago. So it's kind of interesting how that goes for networking, but that's kind of where it started. And then that's kind of what I brought in with these agency jobs. Now now going back to the agency work that I worked in after doing that for a while.

It was, I think it was about late December of 2022. And I kind of said to myself, you know, I have this CBN marketing training, you know, why not take this vision and, you know, build this into a full service agency? Because I saw the things that I liked and saw the things that I wanted to improve on within the industry.

Yeah. And so instead of just You know, kind of thinking about it and stuff. I went for it and you know, it could, it was gutsy. I got to say at 22 gutsy doing that with also very little resources, basically a computer and a phone is what I started with. And not even a call list, just computer phone.

Let's get started with no people, just myself. And yeah, that's kind of how the beginning of this business started. And. We didn't even start operationally till about, I'd say early February almost. And so it's not even a year in and since then we've kind of, you know, developed this team by networking like crazy.

I mean, I have a few of my former classmates at Nate that are on my team now, like I'll, I'll name one, like Nikki Tompkins, Nicole Tomkins, my social media manager. Excellent. She does such a good job and I just wanted to give her a name out there. She. She's, she's incredible. Huge personality, bubbly as heck.

If you think I'm bubbly and extroverted, this Nikki is crazy, extroverted. She'll, she'll talk to the client for hours, but anything, and that's what they love, right? Because it's about finding that personality and personable people within your team to really make that difference for the client.

Kelly Kennedy: Do you mind if I pause you just for a sec?

So one of the, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was just that. So you have, you know, I mean, CBN marketing has been around for three years. You initially launched in the pandemic, but you haven't been really like actively operating except for, for about the last year, correct? Yeah. Now you have experienced pretty exceptional growth for your first year in operation.

And I wanted to just spend a little bit of time with you there because we are a business development oriented podcast. What were some of the steps that you took to achieve that kind of growth? You know, like you mentioned that you're working with around 25 different clients, you have, you know, around 10 different people working for you.

That is exceptional growth. There are people listening. They're like, dude, how are you doing that? So why don't you give them a little tips on, on, on how you were able to achieve that growth. And maintain it and frankly, not bankrupt yourself doing it.

Connor Nichols: Okay. So first of all, it's funny you mentioned that because now ever since we've talked, we've actually grown our team to about almost 18 team members now.

So it's, we're just keep growing. That's also mainly for capacity. I think the tips I had for growing this was First of all, finding the right, finding good people to work with. So one of my first strategies was, you know, before even getting projects, find people that you could have in to help you with different projects, depending on the service.

So I met people through just different circumstances, whatever it was, Nate, Nate classmates, or through, I went, I was at a native and why was in my former agency and met a Young man named Alishum who's now I would say, who helps me with a lot with my operations now. Yeah. And he's a year younger than I am, but exceptional with delegating and, and I just saw that kind of like that really good skills right off the bat, the soft skills.

And then, you know, I brought his brother Zain, who is a Filmographer videographer who went to film school in Vancouver and. Those 2 are absolutely phenomenal young guys really excellent backgrounds and see, that's what I look forward to. It's finding that the people that are personable, that have really strong backgrounds, but that get back to the community.

So that's that's another thing to look at, because it's 1 thing to do the work. It's another thing giving back from the work that you've done. And that's kind of how I see, you know, moving forward this vision that I tried to help bring. To other clients, but also the team involved other groups, I would say is when networking with other individuals, finding that need and pain points, but also getting to know them the people on a personal level.

So instead of networking where you're just making your pitch, like, Hey, I'm X, X marketing. I do this, this, and this services. I hold back from that quite a bit right at the start. Usually what I do is I. Try to ask what they're about, and then maybe there, there'll be a need there. It's almost like taking a step back for just a minute and really understand what the pain points and needs are.

And there is the lure in to really understand what is needed. I think another thing with growth, I think, too, is. It's the amount of work that you have to put in. And I know that maybe sounds a little cliched, but it is a business and you have to put those extra hours. And that's kind of what I say to young entrepreneurs.

You got to put the hours in right off the start. Like there's, there's someone I know that has his own landscaping company that he's just starting out. That's one of my clients. And I said to him, I'm like, if you want to get this started, you got it. Sometimes you have to put those 80 to 90 hour work weeks to ensure that you could get.

You know, the ground going like mean that the business going so that's kind of the tips that I have for growth, it all comes down to networking, which is also the N in CBN so it's kind of funny how that that kind of comes together.

Kelly Kennedy: There's no replacement for hard work. I don't care who you are, what you do, there is zero replacement for putting in the time, putting in the effort, and I always say that to entrepreneurs who are getting started, and I say don't start in a business that you don't love because you are going to put in, you know, you're going to basically put in all your time into it, it's all you're going to think about, so it best be something that you are incredibly passionate about, and me and you, listening to your story, I have so many, we have so many similarities in our own journey and story.

I look at you and you were talking about how, you know, you were young and you were pitching, you know, products and services to, to much older business owners. I was 23 myself when I got into business development, that was kind of the beginning of my direct business development journey. I'd done sales for many years before that, but directly getting into business development was 23.

And at that time I was in oil and gas and I was marketing to 60, 55 to 65 year old executives at large oil and gas companies, large construction firms. And I remember that feeling. I remember being like, holy crap. Like It's it was really hard to connect with some of them on on a level that was felt almost impossible.

So I was really connecting to you in that moment because I've been there. I felt that I knew exactly what you were talking about. And then you moved into a part where you were talking about how you just knew you just knew that you were going to move into marketing. And I always like to say that.

Business development chose me. And I kind of saw that with you. It really felt like marketing chose you. It was like, yeah, this is what you're going to do. This is what you're going to be passionate about. And I remember having that exact same feeling. And I tell everybody that most people don't go into marketing or business development thinking that is what I'm going to do with my life.

At some point, it just kind of pops out of nowhere and chooses you.

Connor Nichols: Well, it's, it's, it's almost like this, like You know, like when we talk about true love, it's kind of like that with business, it's like, it's like this feeling like that you lock eyes with that, you know, vision and you're hungry for it and you're like, you know, let's go.

That's, that's how I see it. It's, a very it's definitely an emotional. feeling and it's definitely almost like a really strong trigger. Yeah. But once that trigger happens, man, it's beautiful.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't know what I would do if I didn't end up in business development.

And you know, what's so funny was when I first got hired at a college I didn't get hired for business development. I ended up moving in, I was doing operations and business admin for a company. And I ended up kind of having a couple calls with people and the, and the boss saw, and he's like, dude, you're really good at this.

Like you need to be doing business development for us. And I was like, I remember hopping on and I'm Googling what is business development? Because we didn't even talk about that in college. . Yeah. Yep. So yeah, it was so funny. But yeah, it's, it is one of those things that in the beginning I was a little reluctant because.

I'd kind of gone to college and went to business school in order to get away from sales, which is kind of funny because I just didn't want to do sales anymore. And so I left, I went to school to get away from it and ended up deeper than ever. It is funny. It feels sometimes like Like you're on a life path and it's chosen and it's going to go, whether you, whether you, whether you change your mind.

Connor Nichols: Okay. I have a funny story to tell regarding that. So my father, I remember we used to talk up all the time. He said, my dad used to say, you know, you should be getting business development at sales. And I'm like, Dad, I'm not in sales. I'm in marketing. And I used to argue about this for years and years and about how I want to go into marketing and that that is not sales.

There's no way I'm going to go in sales. So, and then now what did I end up being in sales and business development? So, you know, thanks dad. I guess you were right on that one. He was definitely right on that argument. So. You go to school thinking you're avoiding sales, but then you end up in sales because you're always trying to help people and find that vision across.

So it's really funny. I really relate to that. Yeah. I had that same argument with my father for years.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And you know what, he won. I was just laughing listening to your story because your story and my story are very similar. Even though, you know, we're a decade apart, our stories are very similar.

Connor Nichols: Not gonna lie, we should do a panel event together and just, you know, just like, you know, pinpoint and have the same words, talk the same words and mimic each other.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's just, maybe it's just the fact that we're in such similar industry. I think, I think that might be it too. It's like, you know, one of the things that I was, I found interesting about your story. Was that you were talking about how the pandemic changed everything and you are 100 percent right, but I would love to hear for you on the marketing side, what that was like, you know, obviously, socials, let's talk about socials, socials were not really a thing.

Until the pandemic, I know there are going to be companies out there say, Well, yeah, we were doing posting sometimes, but that's it. They were doing posting maybe sometimes, and it wasn't taken seriously. It was really the pandemic that that that highlighted the importance of socials. And in my mind, LinkedIn has totally changed since 2020.

It's a completely different beast. And companies have had to change to keep up. Do you want to talk a little bit about what those changes were like for you?

Connor Nichols: Well, before, if I go before into the socials, there's other things that I noticed that the pandemic really changed. I think SEO boom during the pandemic.

So, because a lot of these companies, if they're not out, you know, getting out there outside or anything, or that their physical location, how do they market themselves? Well. They need their website to rank while Google because more people were on their phones and computers during the pandemic. So they needed to rank on search engines to ensure that they get clicks and purchases because that's a huge important thing for conversions.

But not only that, but UX user experience became a huge thing because. When you have a website, it's one thing to have a really good website with really strong SEO, but it's another thing when you click on it and you find what you're looking for. And you find exactly what information to look for too, and how to buy items and such.

That's kind of actually even a focus on my business I look for. It's not always about looking like the prettiest website. It's about having a website that works, that's functional and that visitors could use productively. To ensure that you got conversions and sales. So SEO was huge during the pandemic.

I remember it was a huge part of how people were marketing their companies. You were starting to see a lot more SEO agencies come into flame. Like SEMrush became huge. Screaming Frog huge SEO spider. You could get that for free. So anybody that is looking for just like a free SEO tool, use Screaming Frog.

Screaming Frog basically looks at like all your links. It looks at your backlinks. It looks at your meta descriptions, everything. So you kind of get an idea like where your SEO is at within your company. So SEO, I think was huge. Now on the social media side, I would say, yes, social media definitely grew during the pandemic, but it's the type of content that grew.

I find, I found that people are starting to look for more authenticity with content. So instead of just building things for a template, Actually showcasing stories or, you know, even people walking down the their dog around the park, you know, it may sound like cheesy, but it, it creates kind of more of like they're humanize social media.

I feel like when you humanize your social media, that's where the engagement comes because with our lower attention spans, you have to grab people's attention quicker than ever. Ever before, because of the access we have to digital resources. So if you could grab that attention within like the first 3 or 4 seconds of a reel or that video, that really kind of made that difference.

And that's what the pandemic did. Even though they're not outside in their business, whoever it is having that cool conversation about tips regarding their industry or. What if, if they're a business out of a garage? Cause there were a lot of companies in the pandemic that started out of the garage. I have a few clients like that where they started out like that.

And now they have a physical location. They want to see people actually working on the products. Cause then you almost feel like you have a relationship or an attraction to that product before you're even buying it. Yeah. There's that interest there. So I think that the social content grew in that kind of space.

I think LinkedIn. Was also huge. But it was huge in the sense where again was about collaborations, like what companies are collaborating with who, how are they like, you know, pinning people like on their content. And I also found that what was really big with LinkedIn too was video. I find like short videos of not even corporate just really engaging authentic videos is where people are starting to see that engagement.

So that's how I saw social media, how it grew during the pandemic. And it's still like that today.

Kelly Kennedy: And I think we're moving into a time where companies and CEOs and high level executives can't hide behind the organization anymore, right? No, people want to know. who they're working with, who they're buying products and services from.

I think I recognized that about a year and a half ago before I started the podcast, but I do think, I do think moving into, you know, 2025, 2026, I would say by about 2027, I think that almost every organization is going to have to have some form of outward face. You know, authenticness. I think that's what I want to kind of call it is where we're having real conversations.

You're actually getting to know the people behind these organizations, the CEOs, the owners, who they are, what they stand for, who they are as humans, right? We want to know it's not enough to just hide behind your organization anymore. And I think that that's going to be a major shift in marketing and advertising, frankly, moving into, you know, the next three or four years.

Connor Nichols: Well, even that with person to person markets that are heavily aligned on sales and business development, a lot of purchasers now that are up in a new generation, the 1st thing they're going to be looking for is a website. And if they see on their website, the owner, or the people involved in that, there's a bit more of that trust.

I think trust is really the issue that we're starting to see now is people need that trust because there's so much out there. With the more information we know, the less we know. It's really, really interesting how that works, but it's, it's honestly the truth. So that's kind of how I'm starting to see even P2P person markets are starting to shift.

They want to see the people involved in that. That's kind of why on even on my website, I have my, myself and my team around it because I wanted to show like who is involved in the material. Right. Exactly, Kelly.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and you talked about, you talked about trust, which I think is absolutely critical.

And it's just as critical in business development, right? Like the reality is the reason that we focus in business development on developing relationships is because you want to be able to trust the people you're working with. If you're going to be making a million dollars worth of orders with someone over the course of a year, you'd like to know who they are.

You'd like to know that you can pick up a phone and call them. You'd like to know that you already have an established relationship, which is why business development is so Absolutely critical to any B 2 B organization, and I think even in B 2 C in a certain way. But like you said, it's a different way.

It's not quite the same as in B 2 B. But you know, you've built your organization on trust. You've built your organization on even though not so much through the through cold calling and phone calls, but but through actual interaction through conferences, through networking events, You've gone out of your way to meet people, let them know who Connor Nichols is and establish trust.

And that's been, that was the smart thing to do, like right from the beginning. That was the right move to make.

Connor Nichols: Well, and going back to what you said there, and I'd love to kind of mention this to like, I think it's also because I think we started to see when the pandemic kind of started to slow down, people wanted to be people again.

So, people wanted to see people's faces. Faces now, they don't want to, they don't want to just be on the screen, they want to actually meet people in person. So I think that that that's where we're starting to shift in business development. Now, we're starting to see a lot more networking events, a lot more people wanting to network and meet different people.

And say, Hey, I know this person. Hey, you know, this person, Hey, let me introduce you to this. Like, even when I introduced you to someone as well for your team, like just those simple things, we're starting to see more of that because you got them in person in person is such a valuable tool because you learn that body language right away.

You see people in their eyes immediately. You see their vision immediately. And I feel like you get almost more comfortable. There's more of that kind of like, you know, you could be kind of casual with it. You can even talk about, like, we always like talking about the orders. So you talk about the orders all the time and that's definitely an in person thing and.

When we met, we were right in Roger's place. So it's just, it's just a perfect kind of nature of it. So I'd say networking has just become such an impact for business development. And I always recommend to young entrepreneurs that they're getting started, you network like a son of a gun, go to any event you can.

Practice it, because once you start getting really good at it, then you're going to really see the leads come in and the referrals come in.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, like, unfortunately, I am incredibly busy. So I don't get to get out to as many networking events as I as I'd like to, but I try to get one of my employees at them at whenever Edmonton Chamber has something going on, or whenever there's something going on in the city, I do try to get an employee there because I completely agree with you.

I think it's absolutely critical. One of the things that I've learned, though, because I'm in business development and we do business development across Canada, so networking is just not always practical in what we do, just because if I'm, you know, if I'm in Alberta and I'm doing networking in Ottawa or I'm trying to connect with companies, you know, in Newfoundland, it makes it a little bit tougher.

I have learned to take approaches and I've learned to embrace teams meetings and video calls as well in order to establish those relationships on behalf of my clients, however, agreed whenever possible, if you can in person is always better. And you guys know I talk about this on the show all the time.

Everything we do in business development is to get it's to get a meeting. It's to get in front of somebody and start to establish a relationship, right? So Absolutely. I agree completely. And I think, you know, you've done really well because, you know, you are in Edmonton and Edmonton is such a networking hub.

I would, I would argue we might do it better than almost anywhere else in the country. And I know I might get a little trouble for that, but Edmonton is amazing. The Edmonton chamber is one of the best organizations bar none period. For networking events, I can, you know, I've been to many Edmonton Chamber does it better than most.

Connor Nichols: Well, I think it's also this aspect that I always say this thing about Edmonton where Edmonton is a big city, but a small town. Yeah, because it's it's kind of that environment where it's very relationship based. Nobody's in for themselves kind of everyone kind of knows somebody. Yeah, when I go up to just not even network events, but You know, so on referring me to so on, and we talk about the people and now it's like, Oh, I know this person.

Oh, you know, this person. It's like, it creates this weird thing. It's like this small world. So I think Edmonton has done some really good things within regarding to the network inside business, like even now, like with all the startup efforts, like start TNT and Edmonton unlimited and Amii and Alberta innovates.

I mean, you're starting to see a lot more networking out there and the startup initiatives now.

Edmonton

Kelly Kennedy: is the fastest growing tech center in North America. Can you believe that?

Connor Nichols: I do actually, because you know, I'm around it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I, well, I know exactly. But I think, I think most people would look at Edmonton.

They'd be like Edmonton.

Connor Nichols: Well, yeah, I guess we could go there.

Kelly Kennedy: It's like 15 minutes from the city. What are you talking about?

Connor Nichols: But no. Nothing against Toronto, if there's any Toronto fans, at least it's not in Mississauga. But,

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, goodness. Yeah, Edmonton is it's a cool place. It's a cool place, you know, for my fellow Canadians listening that maybe haven't spent too much time here. Yeah, we have a big mall, but we also got big hearts.

And, you know, you're absolutely right. It's, It's small town vibes in a big city, which is really cool. It's really cool. And and I would argue to that. It's a place where the entrepreneurs are willing to help you. You know, I haven't had anybody turned down a meeting or say that, you know, I'm not going to give you five or 10 minutes of my time for a quick conversation.

And, you know, I've always been willing to give advice. I know you've been willing to give advice. And I know me and you have both been helped by plenty of people who have been willing to give us advice, you know, for free, frankly, for a coffee or whatever else. It really is. A community who wants to build each other up.

Connor Nichols: I agree. I think that it's not only that, but it's just, I think now we're starting to see even, not even just my probably an imitant, but business today, people want to help each other. So kind of even the way that I built my, you know, that we helped build this business and I say, we, not I, cause you know, it's a team effort, it's a collaboration it's.

It's about building those collaborations. We're starting to see now that companies are working together to help on projects because it's that team effort. It's that finding those insights, finding the needs they have, finding the skills that they have. It's almost like taking out of the equation and taking the work for yourself.

It's more about, you know, building this almost community trust with multiple people involved with different skill sets. I find that even with clients, when you know that it's a collaboration people are very intrigued by that because that means that you're willing to help others, you know, get work my pitch to a lot of organizations if i'm help collaborating with them is I'll help you Get the work as long as you get the work done And it creates this really excellent relationship because everybody wins the organization that we're collaborating with The client myself that my agency I would say and just everybody involved.

It's a win win And again, it's, it's also this kind of scratch your back method. I know this is probably old school because, you know, I'm an old soul, but it's yours. If you scratch your back, if I scratch your back, you scratch mine. That's kind of the method I've, I would say that I kind of stick with all the time.

Is that quite a method and we're starting to see that now, even with collabs and like you said, with advice, people want to give that advice and then you probably give something in return. That's that's excellent. I'm loving how we're seeing that shift. And not over reliance on just getting stuff done yourself, people need that assistance.

And when you give that assistance, that kind of that genuine nature is definitely shown.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, yes, absolutely. No, I agree completely. You know, one of the things that we were talking about when we were talking about ideas for this show, and I think it's really important, was one of the topics that you had mentioned was marketing misconceptions.

Can you take us into marketing misconceptions, see if we can set some people off right for 2024?

Connor Nichols: Yeah, well, there's a, the thing about marketing is there's a lot of content out there. There's a lot of blogs, there's a lot of videos, there's a lot of content creators. And you know, I'm, I'm not here to depreciate anything that they're doing because everybody is, there's a lot of smart marketers out there.

There's a lot of them. But again, there's a lot of content out there, so there could be some things in there that are misdirected. I feel one misconception is, again, and I'm going back to this concept, websites don't necessarily need to look pretty. That's one misconception I always say, because it's about building a website that is user friendly.

You could build strong SEO with it if it's structured properly, whether it is you're doing site mapping, whether it is you're building the right columns, because with a website too, and this is also a misconception, having a ton of pages isn't also a good thing either. If you have too many pages that don't have enough text, you're not ranking for specific pages on search engines.

So, It's nice to have a lot of pages. If you have a lot of content, which sometimes I do recommend it over having a short website, but if you don't have enough texts, it almost becomes like useless. It's not, it's not good for algorithms. So my recommendation always is build as much copies. You can all that to ensure that you're ranking on specific websites or you're ranking on search engines.

But with that. Your copy. So the things that are written on our website, always make sure that your voice is heard. There are a lot of companies out there that try to do similar type copy within their websites, but you have to differentiate yourself based on your voice and vision. So a lot of times with my clients, I'll say we are building this web copy for you, but we want to hear your voice on it because you might be seeing everything like the other competitors are.

But your voice is what stands out. That's what makes you different. That's what differentiates yourselves. That's one common misconception. I think a misconception too is with a bit of advertising, you could get conversions immediate. Conversions are really tough to get depending on the advertising.

We're even starting to see now that the amount of engagement and advertising is decreased because when people see a social ad, they move away. I feel like if you're going to advertise on social media, You got to intrigue them with the first 3 seconds or else people are going to flip back. It's, it's very difficult and I can even say myself, it's very challenging.

But once you kind of build and the content better be professional. Yeah. So that, that's another thing I always take into account with social content. I find Simply kind of doing posts every day and you know, building it for a template or anything like that, that doesn't provide engagement. What provides more engagement is building authentic content and taking the time to say your story, having your picture on there, having your video yourself, all of that.

Professionalism is huge too. So people could tell pretty quickly now if a content is professional or not. So ensure that that that professionalism is there with the distortion or of your images or how it's structured. Those little details are really make the difference to really show that professionalism within your brand.

So. Those are a couple misconceptions I could think of that are important for 2024, but I think the last 1 and I'm going to go to this because it's a huge subject. We're talking about now is AI. Yeah, AI is a tool, but if we over rely on it. I think that that's, that could be a challenge because you still need your people involved to make those decisions.

So there's, there's platforms out there like seo. ai, which is a great platform because yeah, seo. ai for anybody. It's a great platform because it basically, it helps you build copy on a keyword that you target. So keywords are what you look up on Google. Yeah. It then ranks you for whatever keyword you have, that's SEO, but it builds the copy for you and essentially AI generated, but copying and pasting that.

Makes it sound like almost like a robotic tone. So you have to, of course, you have to adapt to it. It's great because you could build blogs and you could build, cause blogs But if you use it as a tool, it's great because it saves you a lot of time. But if you over rely on it and copy and paste it, then it will show in your content.

So that's the number of misconception I find. People, I think we, we all, even myself, I've gotten caught up on the AI craze and you almost have to tell yourself to stop, use it as a tool, use it for the necessities you need, and then mitigate those challenges.

Kelly Kennedy: My recommendation with AI is always to bring yourself back into it.

And I'm really happy that you touched on that. I'm really happy that you touched on, you need to bring yourself back into your copy. Because I do think the problem with AI is that people are just taking it verbatim, word for word, whatever it spits out. And it's talking in ways that you would never talk.

It's using words and language that you would have never used. And so it comes across very inauthentic. And I know there's people doing this in emails, I know there's people doing this in LinkedIn introductions and LinkedIn posts and everything else. And there are times when it makes sense and when it works.

But I would argue that if you were trying to connect with another person in something that is personal, like any type of advertising specifically, any type of emails or direct contact with a person, yeah, sure, you know, use AI copy to give you some information to start with. But please make sure that you turn it back, you put yourself back into it, you delete some of those words, and you put in what you would have said, bring it back to yourself, be human in a time of AI and computers, we have to still be human.

Connor Nichols: Yeah. And I think that there's also this concept to like, even on the business development side, I think AI is great for like, if you're trying to AI generate leads or any of that, but when you're in front of that customer, you can't have AI talk to you and sell you a pitch.

And I think that that's the beauty of business development that it takes old. Practices from hundreds and hundreds of years ago, or even thousands of years ago with the Silk Road and all the trade routes that it's still being used today. And that's something that's very intriguing about business development that it's still a trade that is needed.

Robotics really can't, I would say, replace a person selling something and making that difference. And, you know, AI is a great tool and all. But still can't replace that sales guy that comes in and makes that difference for that company.

Kelly Kennedy: Relationships still take humans. Yes, absolutely. I mean, we haven't even robotized relationships yet.

So as long as relationships are important, business development and, and, you know, face to face marketing is going to be important too.

Connor Nichols: Well, that's life, right? Relationships are key, right? That's the key to life.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, it's so funny because it's like everything that we do nowadays is about being more advanced, right?

Be more techie, figuring it out. But the reality is that the further we go down that road, The more I think we start to realize, holy crap, those relationships that like in person stuff, real life, is actually important.

Connor Nichols: Yeah, of course. And the funniest part about that is that even in the 80s when computers were a thing, Oh, computers are such a thing, we need to be more techie with computers.

And then now today we're talking about AI. It is always constantly, that's the method. But business Development will always stay and always be essential for businesses to you know, really generate their vision.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, give me some tips for, for younger entrepreneurs.

Connor Nichols: Well, I think that the first thing is to Network like an SOB.

The reason why I say that is, but it's the type of networking. So what I mean is when you're a non entrepreneur and you're trying to generate sales and you're trying to get your business out there, when you network, instead of pitching your company right off the bat, you ask them about them, you ask the guest or the person that you're talking with to ask them about what their company is fine to see if there's a need there.

And then when they talk about your company, they're going to be asking that. Let the, let the guests ask the question. 2nd, you ask those questions 1st, because if you're asking questions, it automatically creates this feeling that you're paying attention that you really are really invested. So that is 1 recommendation.

I give another 1 is. Try to build, try to focus on building a community of trust with people. So this also links back to networking. So community trust actually comes from so I'm a board of wayfinders business cooperative, so maybe I'm promoting them a little bit, but way finders business cooperative, really good organization with board members such as Shannon Barry and Randall.

Randall is a huge part of that and he always talks about community of trust. He's been a, he was a consultant for years and he even build academic papers and community of trust is so important because of today's day and age. So for young entrepreneurs, please, when you're in front of people, build that trust with them.

After, when you're done networking with them, ask if they follow up with a mask, if you want to coffee with them and hear what you have to say. But also humble up, so eat that piece of humble pie and just listen and take back. And yeah, maybe I'm doing a lot of talking today. This is probably more talking that I do in a day because of listening to my clients and customers.

So you know, entrepreneurs, please just. Ask those right questions, but that's going to take time too. So understand that that is a process. I think another tip too is when you have a team, when you're networking people, find people first. So find great people that are personable. That's huge because they could talk to clients and they could talk to.

individuals involved, they could delegate find people where their weak spots are. I'm just going to say like, I, I even classify myself as more as a business development person than a pure marketer. So that is why when I try to find a team to help the agency together, to find people with those skills that I don't have, it is okay to acknowledge that you're not skillful in certain things and have people around you that could.

That could help you with that that have the skills that you do not have. It's, it's a very humbling feeling, but it's also necessary because then you have a team that have collective that have all these different skill sets, which is what we've done with this agency created a diverse skill set. Another tip is while you're in school.

So, if anyone's in post secondary, while trying to help with the business, I would recommend try to get really invested in your projects, get to know your professors. See, like, who can I meet to help out with this? Or kind of get really invested with that. Like I know at Nate, it, it'll, you were allowed to talk to different companies.

So we did that for projects cause they were actually practical. So that's another thing. I think lastly, another tip is, is to. The work ethic, but when I mean, by work ethic is not just work hard, work, hard, work hard. It's about understand that this is a commitment and the amount of work you have to put in, especially in your 1st year is going to be substantial.

So accepting that you need that work ethic, I think is essential because in that way, it just keeps you going. And then that way you're not putting yourself in a bad position while also ensuring that you're putting in that work ethic to help grow your business because it takes a long time to really kind of get those clients right off the bat.

So yeah, yeah, that's what I would recommend.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing, dude. You know, this show is coming out right at the beginning of February. So, you know, we're, we're into the new year. We're into 2024 at this point, but But I know that we have entrepreneurs listening or younger people listening who are thinking about launching a business, or they just they're afraid to take that leap.

They're afraid to take that leap. Connor, give him some advice. Help them to make that leap. What's the best piece of advice you can give somebody who's on the ledge and and wondering whether or not they should take that jump on that great business idea they have?

Connor Nichols: Well, it was going back to the, the next point that I was going to make was this jump, I think if there's, if you have a business that you find that you, when you do a cost benefit analysis that, you know, that is low cost and the, the resources you need, you have, so like having the resources beforehand, your overhead's not too bad right off the start, and it's not a huge financial thing.

Go for it because the amount of losses you have will be less substantial than a company that costs two and a half million dollars right off the start. I think the jump, I think, kind of stems, honestly, I think a big part of it is the financial part. I think it's it's about losing a lot of money right off the start.

It's about, you know, that kind of. Worry about you know, that that kind of challenge. So my recommendation would be if it's a low cost solution and you have some resources right off the bat, go for it because it's not going to if it's if it doesn't work out, then you pivot and it's not like your losses are going to be as substantial as something like you know, like something that costs over a million dollars to for a start.

But you know what? Everybody is different. So it depends on your life journey depends on your path. It depends on your background I think also the jump I would recommend too is before you jump in Talk to people within your industry talk to mentors have mentors talk to industry guests talk to people in industry get their input on it Like is this a good idea?

Is this something that is needed in the market? You know, some may say yes, some say no taking all that information will really make that difference. Like I know with this agency, I talked to some people before I even started it because once you get insights from people that have done it correctly, then it makes you almost feel more confident or comfortable with your decision because you have somebody already backing up your vision and values.

So those are the two things I would recommend. Understand your resources and. understand, like you could talk to other industry people to really see what their value is in it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Amazing advice. Amazing advice. Connor, if people are listening to this today and they want to get ahold of you, they maybe want to chat about some of the marketing things that you do at CBN.

Could you maybe just give people an introduction to CBN marketing? What, what services you provide and how they can get ahold of you?

Connor Nichols: Yeah, so CBN marketing and as a full service marketing agency here in Edmonton, we provide website design services. We provide graphic design, social media. I do some coaching.

So coach students. I would coach young entrepreneurs or even business owners that that. Could do the stuff themselves, but we'd like to get kind of a direction of how to develop that. I have a I have a model in my business. I don't give a solution. I teach it and that's kind of where you see that kind of impact now I also do video and photography.

That's a huge one because I have a media team So if anyone wants to see like strong videos or really want to see that visual perspective of their business That would be also number one I'm also moving into like PR as well. So public relations. So emergency management was a big dart that I've done in the past media relations.

And then lastly, a new service I have is application software development. So I have some, so anybody that's looking for something to uncover pain points, application software development is definitely something I provide as well. And digital advertising. That's the last one I provide. So Google ads, LinkedIn ads, and social ads.

Kelly Kennedy: Awesome. Awesome. And what's the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Connor Nichols: Best way to get ahold of me is either through my website and through contacting with me through my website or email me at connor at CBN marketing. ca. My website is CBN marketing. ca. That's the best way to get ahold of me. You could even follow me on LinkedIn.

It's just Connor Nichols. BBA should be simple to see, but the link should be down below. So that's the best way to get ahold of me.

Kelly Kennedy: Perfect. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you as well, obviously we've been talking about Edmonton, you're based in Edmonton, however, you are not limited to Edmonton.

You can service Canada wide, correct? Yeah. Yes. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Well, that 104. Connor, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for coming on with us today. And I always love chatting business development, so I appreciated that immensely. Until next time. This has been the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization Is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.