Unlocking Leadership Mastery with Mike Mack: Insights on Executive Coaching and Consulting

Unlocking Leadership Mastery with Mike Mack: Insights on Executive Coaching and Consulting

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 142 of the business development podcast. And on today's expert guest interview, we bring you three time Amazon bestselling author, Mike Mack. Mike is going to chat with us all about consulting, coaching. The process of writing a bestselling book, stick with us. You're not gonna wanna miss this.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development, advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought To you by Capital Business Development, Capitalbd.ca. Let's do it. Welcome to the Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello, welcome to episode 142 of the Business Development Podcast. And oh boy, do we have an amazing expert guest for you guys today with over a decade and a half of experience. Mike Mack stands as a prominent figure in the world of executive coaching, consulting, and facilitation. Since 2006, he's been empowering business teams to reach their full potential through tailored consulting and training programs, coupled with personalized coaching advice.

Mike's dedication to fostering trusted collaboration with his clients is evident in his commitment to helping organizations amplify customer satisfaction, elevate employee retention rates, and drive sustainable growth across various domains, including customer service. Sales growth, team building, leadership development and strategic planning.

As a three time Amazon best selling author, Mike's impactful publications such as Remarkable Service, Relationships for Keeps, and his latest release, Lunch with Leaders, Have inspired countless professionals worldwide with his expertise and passion. Mike Mac continues to revolutionize the business landscape.

One collaboration at a time from bestselling author to trusted advisor. Mike Mac epitomizes excellence in executive coaching and consulting. A proud member of the International ICF. Mike's relentless pursuit of excellence and his unwavering commitment to delivering results have earned him the reputation as a true industry leader in a world hungry for transformative leadership.

Mike Mack is the beacon guiding organizations towards success one breakthrough at a time. Mike, it's an absolute honor to have you on the show today.

Mike Mack: Wow. That is an incredible introduction. If we completed the show there, I'd be at peace with that. So thank you for that.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh boy. I absolutely love reading.

And you know, I made a couple of mistakes with yours because it's just too, too damn epic. You need to have a less epic intro, Mike.

Mike Mack: Thank you. Well, it's either. Epic, or I'm just getting older and wiser as I've always been very kind and very flattered at the opportunity to to be on your show today as well. So I'm grateful for that.

Kelly Kennedy: The the honor is very, very much mine. You know, sometimes, you know, I, I, you know, I end up in this consulting side of things too. And sometimes with people like you, I still feel like I'm standing in the shadows of giants.

Mike Mack: Well, thank you. We're all good. We all, we all started somewhere as well.

So kudos to you for episode 142 as well. So that's been a, been a journey for you as well. So hopefully we we have the opportunity to add some value to your listeners today and throughout the year ahead.

Kelly Kennedy: I am 150 percent confident that we will, we we initially connected when I was just looking to connect with other local Edmontonian executives.

Really? That was kind of how this came to be. And it was really cool because when we had our first conversation, I think it was literally the day before you were launching Lunch with Leaders.

Mike Mack: A great, great memory. Latter January 2024. You got it. And that's a beautiful part of social media as well.

Kelly, right? Where you can connect and and have that local flare very quickly. And the, the virtual presence or in person presence, you hopefully get the same individual and, I believe that's the case for both of us today as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, totally, totally. And I know that I was kind of like immediately inspired with all the work that you'd done and I bought lunch with leaders the very next day I was on it.

And did you achieve your Amazon number one seller status for that?

Mike Mack: Well, I'll comment on that in two parts. So I finished number one in three categories, and don't quote me on this, but I think it was under leadership, entrepreneurship, and then business leadership. And then from a top 100 ranking, I think I finished number six overall, amazon.

1. Which is a very tall order for context. If, as you may know, there are literally hundreds of thousands of books on Amazon. And I think the night before I was a ranked at about 238, 000 just for context. So something I'm very proud of. And obviously, well, that's a marketing play more importantly, I hope whoever purchased the book, that there's value to be gained from the pages within the book.

And something I was very proud of to launch it, but simple people like me, there's no way you could pull off bringing out a book like that without Social media or obviously leveraging Amazon. So a little bit of a future comment on that. I'm in a couple of weeks. I'm in studio to start recording the audio book as well.

So I didn't I didn't have time to pull it off at the same time. So that hopefully will be live and out on audible by later. May. That's the goal anyway.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Well, and it's, it's an amazing book. I really thoroughly enjoyed it. You know, sometimes you just read books cause you have to read books.

And this was one that I just kind of got into and I was like, Holy crap, this is really, really good.

Mike Mack: Your flattery will get you everywhere as well. I think a comment and we'll get into it down, you know, throughout our conversation today, but By design, each chapter is very independent, right? So you can read chapter 1, 7 and 9 and flow as you wish, whatever piques your interest as well.

A little bit of trivia. I actually had lunch with someone that was in the book yesterday who I've had lunch with many times. And he's almost through the second time already as well. And he, you know, you appreciate the people in the book are getting. Value out of other leaders stories. That's, I think that's that was the intent that I had in the vision of it in the first place.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's so funny. Cause I think about it and like lunch with leaders is very much set up in a lot of the same ways that we do the business development podcast, which I, I found that kind of touching and fun.

Mike Mack: I agree. Yeah, I, there is a parallel there for sure. You got it.

Kelly Kennedy: And one of the cool things that I notice is that there's synchronicities on the business development podcast between, you know, a lot of the experts that we've had on the show, especially, you know, executive CEOs, things along those lines.

It's amazing how many of them have very similar stories and have. faced very similar challenges. I think most business owners hop into business and they think that all their problems are unique to them. And while it can feel that way in the moment, it's sometimes nice to like hear shows like this, or to read books like lunch with leaders and realize that we're all facing these challenges.

Mike Mack: 100 percent you're bang on on that for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Mike, one of the things that wasn't in the book is your lunch with leaders story. And I always love to start this show with who is Mike Mack. And so I want you to give it to us just like you kind of did in lunch with leaders. Who is Mike Mack? Take us back to the beginning.

Mike Mack: I'm all over that. And thank you for the opportunity. I it's interesting as a few people have brought that up, including my wife as well. Hey, are you plan on being part of the chapter in the book? And as I said, that book wasn't about me. It was about the other leaders in it. And yeah, you know, I think from my vantage point, even going through the book journey, I have a greater appreciation of my own journey as well.

So thanks for the opportunity to share that. So what I always like to say from humble beginnings, a small town, Saskatchewan being a Saskatchewan farm boy. Okay. Which actually surprisingly has opened a lot of doors because I think fundamentally you think, well, he must be a pretty nice guy and a hard worker.

I would say I learned to be a nice guy from my mother, my late mother, and my late father taught me to work hard. So small town, small town kid that was always aspiring for more, but, but always those humble beginnings and the roots and taking care of the neighbors and helping out, you know, with the kids.

As you will. So early in my career I, I got into financial services. I was a banker in my former life and started in Regina, Saskatchewan. Really a privilege to be part of the banking career for 15 years. So it allowed me to progress as a manager and as a leader at that time, where I evolved into Regina and moved around in Saskatchewan, ended up in Prince George, British Columbia.

And then I've been in Edmonton north of 26 years now. So that journey, I learned a lot about that professional banking journey over time, just learning to respect confidentiality and build trust with clients and elevating my own professionalism and business acumen as well. Personally, I'm from a family of 6, so I'm the youngest of 6 and again, our.

Parents have passed away a long time ago and our our family is very close, even though we don't see each other all the time. So I, well, I wrote a book on relationships. I value relationships a great deal, both personally and professionally. So the banking journey had served me very well and, and privilege that they, they did help fund my MBA from Athabasca University, which is coming up, I think.

I'm losing track of time, but I think it's 22 years ago almost that I completed that. So, you know, I, I, I'll say I did various careers, but, but surprisingly not as many as most. So when I, when I left banking, I got into insurance for a while and I had a very unique opportunity back in 2000 to go into the insurance industry and to actually open an office from scratch.

To hire every single person and build it up. That was a unique experience and something I'm quite proud of. When I look at some of those high points in my life where I had an opportunity to build it from scratch and it became the number one office within that company in Canada. So that was something that that I look back and, you know, at the time to say, was I a great leader?

I think I learned a lot of things just from fundamental roots that I had back in, maybe in my Saskatchewan days. I did a stint in the executive side and non profit and my calling inevitably led me to entrepreneurship. Now, when I started X5 and in the fall of 2006, I would say this to many people, Kelly, is that honestly, it probably took me five years to say that I was an entrepreneur.

I enjoyed early success, which I was very grateful for in simple form. Back then, early success was that I could eat and I could afford to do things, which was great. But, but it was at least five years plus where we went, Hey, I actually feel like I'm an entrepreneur. And today fast forward that to 17 plus years, we're in our 18th year at X five management, where I do relate to the people that are in lunch with leaders.

And I, and I feel that I'm. I'm that type of person. They've got some really amazing stories, but as that subtitle in the, in the book suggests real stories of pivotal moments, I had a lot of pivotal moments. Honestly. I mean, if I, if I share that more on a personal note, and then I'll dovetail a little bit more to X5.

When I started in 2006, life is good. One year in my mother passed as a way of cancer. So that really, you know, Set you back. I was incredibly close with my mother. She lived in Saskatchewan. And then one year later, my wife at the time decides to not be married anymore. So that's a pivotal moment. You got this distraction, pretty significant distraction, but you still got to.

Rise above it and take care of yourself, the business and your clients as well. 2009 in Alberta, which if you're old enough for that was not a banner year anywhere, it was a brutally tough year. So I always say in, in that period of time from late 2007 to the end of 2009. probably some of the darkest days for me and really managed to rise above that and get through it.

And things started to get better and better throughout 2010 and, and beyond. I'll pause there if you have some questions and I'll give more details on X five, but feel free to chime in.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. One of the things that I always like to ask when I hear about the challenges that people have faced and, you know, it sounds like those challenges, first off, I'm really sorry about the loss of your mother and, and the loss of your relationship.

Those are both incredibly hard. hard things to deal with for anybody. One of the things that always comes to my mind is, how were you able to overcome that and still kind of continue growing and handling your clients and doing everything despite personally suffering?

Mike Mack: It's a great question. And you know, today within our business, we'll talk on later.

We do a lot of work on things like emotional intelligence and so on. I didn't have that framework back in the day. That was real Raw learning. So the blessing that I had at the time my mentor, his name is Arnold. I got to give a shout out to him. It was actually the best man at my wedding a number of years ago.

And I'll talk about my new relationship in a moment that, which has been 12 plus years of amazing. Arnold really was a, was a mentor. So he wasn't a coach. He was a professional real estate guy out of Vancouver commercial and industrial. He taught me a lot of things. But one of the greatest nuggets of insight that he provided at that time was, Mike, you need to compartmentalize.

So when times were tough, you really had to block out that space in your mind to deal with issues and park it. So in some cases, I'm going to deal with that tomorrow morning. Today, I got to deal with my client Kelly and others, et cetera, to really focus. I will say that was incredibly difficult. But I still use that today and I've become very good at compartmentalizing when times are chaotic and challenging.

I have a very busy life professionally as well. So I always give credit to Arnold on that one. That was probably the greatest insight. Number two was that I had to rely on other people. So what I learned from Jack Canfield, the famous author of Chicken Soup back in the day, and I was at a conference at his a dozen years ago.

Ask, ask, ask. So the reality is if I needed some support or guidance on things, I didn't have all the answers to everything. I started to do a better job of asking other people for insight, and they weren't necessarily professionals that could have been a brother in law. That could have been a client. It could have been a relative, whatever the case may be.

But I really started to become better at leaning on other people, and I didn't have to go it alone. And I think a lot of leaders Entrepreneurs and others. We have a tendency. Hey, we're strong. We're resilient. We could do that. But the more that we do that and we lean on other people's support, it allows us to get through that.

And part of what I get to do professionally today as I get to be on the other side of that today, where I get to support really great people that are struggling with certain things, whatever that may be business growth or family issues in a family based business, et cetera. So that, that's been the evolution of that.

And again, I go back to the book that pivotal moments, well, we have countless pivotal moments in our life, both personally and professionally, and I'm sure I'll have more of them in the years ahead, be prepared for them and mentally prepared for them as well. So it's critically important.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I, I, I think.

I agree with you completely and it's so funny because sometimes you don't even see the pivotal moments when you're in them. I would actually argue that most of the time you can't see it when you're in it. It tends to be something that you look back on and that was something that kind of came up in the book a lot is that people were like, yeah, when I looked back, you know, you could see the pivotal moments a lot more clear.

But yeah, I, you know what I mean? I think I even suffer from Being one of those people who it's like, I'm sure I'm in a pivotal moment right now, but it's very hard to recognize it and what it actually means for my future until I get into that future and can look back.

Mike Mack: And I'll give a little plug to another book, one of my favorites in the last number of years, and it's The Gap.

And the gain, and that is by Dan Sullivan, which is one of the co founders of strategic coach and Dr. Benjamin Hardy. So I've literally been through that book about three times, the gain and well, the gap in the gain is the title, but just for quick context for our listeners, the gain is really the past.

So if we look at over the last, say even four years, since the start of pandemic, To now we have to look at those gains. And to your point earlier, sometimes it takes a year or two to look back that far to realize that they were actually gains for the record. All those gains aren't always success stories.

Sometimes they're pivotal moments that are failures as well that we gain. We might have went left instead of right. And we realize now that ended up being the right decision at the time. It wasn't on the forward thinking side of the next year or 3 years ahead. That's the gap. That's unrealized future potential and the ideal where we want to be as well.

So those are very profound points that. Not only I share that when I'm talking to clients, but that book sincerely became a game changer for me as well. I live in the gap way less than I used to because I've got lots of goals and dreams and objectives, but I got to celebrate where I was and where I am at today.

If I look back at the start of X five in 2006 to today, massive transformation. And to the naked eye, you'd say, well, you look more or less the same. You're a little bit older, But there was so many significant gains along the way that make me who I am today and I'm certain is the case for you as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. And you know, I, I fail to celebrate the wins. I'll be the first to say it. I, you know, and it was funny because it came up in a couple of stories in the book as well where people are talking about how. You need to stop and really appreciate it. But it's like, did they? And because that was one of the things that didn't really come up was, did they stop to appreciate it?

Or is it just hindsight? And I think most entrepreneurs find themselves in that space where it's like, in the moment, it feels like you have, you're going somewhere and you can't stop because the momentum's on your side. And you know, I'm a big fan of saying when you have momentum, use it, right? Take advantage of the opportunities.

But if you're constantly doing that, it makes it very hard to appreciate it. Appreciate the moment and I know that I struggle with that and I know that lots of entrepreneurs struggle with that.

Mike Mack: Well, it validates Kelly that you're an entrepreneur because based on the interviews that I had with within the book, you're bang on on that, that that is more hindsight for sure about in the moment.

Oh wow. I did something great today. I might reflect on that in 90 days that I did something great today, 90 days ago. That's because you are in the moment and you are looking forward. You're not dwelling on the past. The magic is you're comparing yourself that as the book states to your past self relative to progress, it's still forward thinking, but it's almost like a balance sheet a scorecard.

You've got to look at that and go, Oh, my God, I'm, I'm a different person. My business is in a very different place than March 2020. It's more obvious today to me than it was 3 years ago. That's the reality. So and I, and I, I want to pick on your comment there on momentum. I'm a big fan of that. And big Mo is everything.

And to your point, when you have it going, don't stop. You know, I grew up as a farm boy. So, you know, you need to, make hay when, when the sun is up, or you need to, you know, be pulling off the harvest at the right time. Don't, don't be taking days off on that. So keep it rolling and keep that momentum going.

And I think that's, there's a lot said about that as entrepreneurs and Alberta based entrepreneurs anyway, or Saskatchewan based for that matter. Of that momentum, it's critical. You can't, you can't stop for a day or two. That is a struggle for me that I do find it difficult to turn off. I just got back from vacation on the weekend from Mexico and people go, can you turn it off?

I can for part time, but I can't turn it off for seven days, 24, seven. I just not prepared to do that. So.

Kelly Kennedy: It's so funny that you just said that because I literally, right before this interview, I was in a meeting with a client who just took his family to Disneyland and I said, how was it? He's like, well, it was great for some people.

I was like, yeah, but what about for you? And he's like, Yeah, it was really hard. It was really hard to step away and do that. And it's like, you think about that. And you know, a trip to Disneyland for a family of his size, he's probably spending 15 to 20, 000 on this, on this adventure. And yet for him, it's like, I would rather be working or this, this to him felt like, A really hard choice to make.

And I was like, man, like it does make you wonder sometimes. And to me, what it makes me wonder is how can I do that and find happiness in it? Because I don't want to spend 20, 000 on an, on an adventure with my family and look back at that moment and think I didn't enjoy that trip because I should have been working.

Mike Mack: Yeah, now the tip that I'll provide if we go back to my mentor, Arnold, who's 89 years of age today sometimes I mean, maybe I'm justifying it. But for me, I compartmentalize I get up early and it was just my wife and I obviously our kids are growing up. So from that vantage point, that compartmentalize was 6 a. m. to 9 a. m. I need to do some work. I was able to turn it off on a hot day and enjoy some time at the pool or the beach. So everything in moderation, I think it's the best way to describe it. That's the reality because it probably gave me less stress. To do that, then try to turn it all off because I'm not really in it either way.

Usually get that report card from my wife would suggest I did a much better job on that than I did say on a vacation a year ago, where I was distracted with things that were going on from a business perspective. So more present. For a period of time. So even if that's 8 hours during the sun I was more present.

So I think that trade off that intention, if you will, serve me well, and hopefully it does for others, but to your point on the family and 15, 20 grand on it, I can see that I already can visualize. I was just on Instagram or something I read this morning. There was some spouse paid an upgraded ticket for business class coming back from from a trip in Mexico.

Because basically her husband was in the hotel room working the entire time. So that, that does happen as an entrepreneur and you can't, you can't turn it off. Having said that we do need to recharge or sharpen the saw, as you know, and that's a, that's a very intentional thing that we've all as leaders need to get better at for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's something that comes with time, right? It's like, you've been in business for almost 18 years, A lot of lessons happen in 18 years, right? Like me and my entrepreneurial journey. I'm in my fourth year. You know, I've done business development a long time, but as an entrepreneur, I'm still relatively new and I'm learning all the time.

I love these interviews because I learned so much in them. I'm curious about them because I'm also learning all the time, right? But I look at somebody like you, who's been in the industry for a very long time. And I always wonder, Did Mike find balance? Was he, or is it just an illusion?

Mike Mack: Well, it's interesting as it comes up in Lunch with Leaders by some of the leaders a few times.

And I think that there's no right or wrong answer. I think it's a balancing answer versus balance, because if we look at 168 hours a week, seven times 24, you're doing some sleeping, hopefully you are sleeping, not thinking about other things, I, I have a, a very good balancing act in my life. I have an amazing wife and partner who supports me a great deal.

We both work very hard. She has a national job. She travels. She does things. But the balancing side is that when you can turn that off, you know, Friday night's our night. So a movie night in a bowl of popcorn, it's a bit of a recharge that we do and we commit to that all the time. So there's no work after five o'clock and Maybe crack a bottle of wine for dinner.

That's something that we'll intentionally do. One of the things is a little bit of a tip that we're starting to do, and we did this since the new year. We do have a focused day, free day, Sunday. Full disclosure, I do work prior to 9 a. m. I'm an early person. The deal is, during the day. I think we might head to the home show this weekend or otherwise on Sunday, where we're we're doing more social activity or visiting some friends or otherwise versus Going at it from a work perspective.

So, again, that's the balancing act and and being I did a presentation years ago, Kelly in Toastmasters. I was a Toastmaster a long time and it was visualize this pie chart, but it was you need to be at peace and I spelled peace like the peace sign be at peace. With your pie. So when you build it out, if you're an entrepreneur or you're working or you're involved in supporting your kids in sports or whatever you're doing, you just simply have to be at peace with that.

And that's the reality. Is it all equally and perfectly balanced? Never. It's not, but you just have to be at peace with that. I work harder than a lot of people that I know. I don't believe I work any harder than most leaders or entrepreneurs though. So if you're not that, it seems like I'm working harder or more Some people.

But I know a lot of leaders that put their heart and soul into it 24 7 as well. So, I respect that as long as they're enjoying themselves somewhere along the way. Yeah. And make it sustainable. You didn't talk about Saturday. I, I do, I do a lot of work on Saturday. It's, it's one of those things. So even if I look at, at, at the, the book project, which took me two years plus, you know, in the final stages of that five, six months before it was done, it was very tedious process.

And I had a publisher out of the U S. I have a story about that as well. If you can ask me later, relative to putting a lot of time into that, just to reviews and the creative side. So I'm working on a presentation tomorrow morning on a Saturday. That's going to happen because I'm speaking to a group of 8 executives next week.

And I got to build that out. And it's not a thing I can delegate. I got to tailor it to the audience. I know exactly what that person that invited me to that meeting. I'm presenting. I also need to deliver it and package it in such a way that, you know, Connects with that audience. So I need to own that. So that's a Saturday project.

Super early. It's in my calendar for 7 a. m. tomorrow because I don't have time to do that yesterday or Wednesday or today. So that's a creative project as much as anything. So there's still some fun that will occur in that. It gets easier for the record. In the spring and summer in Edmonton anyway, because the weather's nicer and you're cutting the lawn or sitting out on the patio, you can do that.

But when it's a little bit cloudy and gray and there's some snow on the ground, it's definitely easier to do more work. That's, that's kind of a default for me. So.

Kelly Kennedy: Totally. I've I've fairly recently become a morning person for the same reasons as you. It's like, where can I steal time that doesn't hurt the family?

And it really does. It really means five in the morning. That's the time.

Mike Mack: You got it. And if you haven't met me, young family as well, I mean, I, my wife and I live together. So in the context of that. And you know, the 5 a. m. club is a great book as well for reference, but I I've been a morning guy forever. So I'm, I always say I'm blessed with that.

I will say full disclosure, if I were to guess when I last woke up to an alarm, it might be a year. Wow. Maybe even longer. So the other morning, don't quote me on the day, but 2 days ago, I had a bunch of work to do and I had to be on site with a client. So I set an alarm for 5 a. m. I woke up at 4. 50 and I turned the alarm off.

Which is basically my Google platform in the bedroom. I turned off kind of the, the surge bar click. So my wife could rest longer literally 10 minutes before the alarm went off. So you get pretty programmed and pretty dialed in on that. Having said that I I'm pretty disciplined. That's another factor.

We don't have a TV in the bedroom by design. A hockey game was on last night. It was early enough where. We were wound down in bed by 10 o'clock. That's pretty consistent. And you know, other routine that we have. So we can appreciate a pretty good sleep for the most part.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. We we also no longer have a TV in our bedroom.

However, that wasn't me. That was my fiancee. Who's like, we need to do this because this is better. And you know what? I agree. I agree. I was, although I'll tell you what I fought it tooth and nail, Mike, I fought it tooth and nail for a while. But, but yes, now that we have removed the TV from the room, We have been getting much better sleep.

So I was wrong.

Mike Mack: This is an old concept. I, I, what I have to paraphrase Darren Hardy, he wrote the compound effect, et cetera, and the privilege of meeting Darren Hardy about 10 years ago. He referenced bookends of the day. So if you get up at five in the morning, wait, or what? That bookend on the front end from five to seven 30 or 8 AM, you get to tailor that that's controllable time, my bookend from 9 PM.

Cause I do work at night sometimes. But I, I'm not a night guy, so I, I'm not highly productive at 930 PM unless I got a really important project. So that bookend is more of a wind down time for my wife and I. So even watching the hockey game last night as an example, if it was a late game, and I got a really important meeting the next day, I'm, I'm not staying up till 11 o'clock.

You know, I probably do that in playoff season, I suppose, but, but that's a discipline on that bookend that, that I try to maintain. And I'm not going to change the outcome of the game, obviously. So I have to decide mentally to turn it off and physically turn it off and head into another space to, to wind down.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. It definitely sounds like me and you have the same kind of wake up and sleep schedules these days. I can't tell you the last time I was up till midnight. So just put it that way.

Mike Mack: Yeah. Well said. And it's funny, you know, people will. My wife appreciates sleeping in, particularly on the weekend and she go, Hey, I can't wait to sleep in tomorrow.

She had a super busy week this week. She, her head office is Boston, so she has meetings. earlier than normal in Alberta time. I never say that on a weekend. I can't wait to have a good night's sleep. If I get up at five tomorrow, I just, as long as I have a good night's sleep, I'm, I'm pretty cool with that.

So in fact, I get up, I, I realize, wow, I actually have more things to do now. So that, that actually excites me more than not, maybe more than it should sometimes.

Kelly Kennedy: But there's something really special about that time though. I don't know what it is, but it feels magical.

Mike Mack: You're, you're, validating your entrepreneurship more than more because I echo what you're saying.

I I'm there. I'm like, and again, the learn piece from a time management perspective that I've learned over time, it's that controllable time. Now you can control the time with thought meditation. Some people do a lot of things, workout, whatever you want to do. That's. That's the magical piece of it, because you get to control that.

You can crank out some emails, you can put a proposal together, or you can just be present. We have, we have a fireplace, a gas fireplace, and I make a great espresso for myself or a cappuccino. And I sit there and I get into work, but it's this space that my day's pretty busy. So I, I'd get up 5 a. m. any day to protect that space to get what I get out of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much every day.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. I'm, I'm very much starting to feel that same way. You know, one of the questions that I had for you was take us into X five, right? Like you said, you came from that banking background. What took you down the path that led to X five?

Mike Mack: Yeah. And of course, beyond banking, there was a couple other careers and I've evolved in the leadership side.

You know, one of the things that was interesting in my banking career, very quickly, I was tacked on the shoulder years ago. I was still living in Saskatchewan at the time where they, they launched a A national sales management program for all the branch network. And I guess I had the gift of the gab at that time.

And that was even pre Toastmaster training and so on. It was a game changer for me because I was able to not only train the trainer or, you know, lead all these leaders in Southern Saskatchewan, I realized, and it was years later before I started X five, that. That I really enjoyed that I'm like, I had the gift of not only facilitating or coaching or mentoring and following the program, if you will, it really actually became a catalyst for 1 of my last promotions within the banking network at that time.

So, like, anything, maybe your story as well, that you decide at some point in time working 9 to 5 for the man or the woman or the organization that there was more, more of, of an opportunity, you know, what's possible and how do I, how do I look at my own potential? And I believe that I had potential and lots of influence from a lot of other friends and mentors and entrepreneurs as well.

So that really became the evolution. So not only did. Protect my future a little bit in the context of revenue upside, but to truly play in my lane, my calling, my unique ability, if you will. So literally it was about a year before I started X five. So this is an important journey and it's something that strategically I'm very proud of.

So October of 2006, I started X five, but it was about a year before I was still working at that time where I took. Becoming a master instructor at NAIT. So we did that on weekends, a couple of weekends in a row and became certified. And, and really the reality there is it was a door opener because. NAIT was a bit of a catalyst for organizations looking for support.

NAIT was a reputable brand or so than Mike Mack or X five, obviously. So truth be told is how I landed my first client at that time. So by. By the fall of 2006, I did a freelance project with this client via NAIT and I was already lined up to wind down in October, October 13th, which was a Friday 2006, decided to step away from the career and get into X five.

So that really had a year runway to plan that out. Well, that client that I worked with at that time actually became one of our first corporate clients of x5 and became a very big client for a long time and still have a relationship with them. They're not a client anymore, but hold them in very high regard.

And, and I was invited to a corporate anniversary about a year ago with the company, and I got invited and I spoke at the organization. So really the catalyst and it's evolved so much, but fundamentally, you know, people would say, well, what is X5 in a nutshell? And I'll always share the story because if you ask for not, I'm going to say it anyway.

I initially had a lowercase x in the brand even, and people kept calling it times five. So it drove me crazy. So I capitalized out those five, you know, X Five. And really at that time, there were five components of what we did from a business perspective. And intentionally, it was sort of strategic that it was a multiplier effect.

It wasn't 10x, but it was, it was five x but it was X Five. And it was also visioned Didn't know it at the time. It's made way more clear today that I always wanted to make it more about me than the greater good of the organization, et cetera. So X Five management and it wasn't consulting, it wasn't coaching, it was management, so it kind of flowed together.

And then the blend brand is really nicely evolved that I'm very proud of today. So in its simplest form. What was there before that's still there today is training, coaching, consulting. So consulting was with all due respect, more of a catch all than anything, because, well, you're a consultant. So people actually know what consultants sort of do.

Some people don't know what they do and figure why do you charge what you do to. To do stuff. But in that lane, we did some strategic planning, facilitation, stakeholder engagement, and so on. But the mainstay at the early stages that still is today has been that corporate training. So we've got a really broad band of training.

If I were to guess, we must have 20 plus training programs, maybe even more. I still do some training, but I have more of our team that are doing more of the corporate training. And then on the coaching side, we kind of have three lanes. So sales, Coaching support. So sometimes we might be helping a company with their sales team or the sales leader.

Then we have leadership training as well. So that could be someone moving from the front shop floor as a, as a mechanic or in the warehouse or whatever the case to now lead a group of a dozen people. They need to learn and develop. Leadership skills. We do a lot of that beyond training. So we do that one to one coaching.

And then at the start of the pandemic to now that executive coaching has really, really blossomed and flourished in that regard. So that's kind of the lane of X Five. And it's something that I'm proud of of that lane of what we do today and in many cases with many of our retained clients. We actually do all three of those areas.

We do some corporate training, we do some leadership coaching, and then we do consulting as well. We're this holistic advisor from a longstanding relationship. So that, that's it in a nutshell. There's a, the team has expanded well beyond me over the years. And I'm going to say by the end of April of this year, I.

I think we'll be close to 10 people on the team that we have in terms of the model that we built out over time. So.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, that's amazing. I, I, I find it funny. I really appreciate you going into you know, essentially your brand story and how you came up with your name. I always think it's funny, especially now.

When I started Capital, we had an idea of what we did. But that idea of what we did refines over time, changes over time, flexes over time until you realize, you know, four or five years later that you're operating a fairly different organization than you did when you started, right? I always think it's funny that we pick our names for our companies and we kind of stick with it.

But usually when we pick the name for our companies, our company isn't even formed to the area of understanding that it becomes five to 10 years down the line.

Mike Mack: Very true. Yeah, it's a clarity process as well. And I am way wiser and hopefully smarter than I was 17 plus years ago. I like where it's evolved.

I'm proud of that evolution of, you know, of, you know, what we do well. We, you know, we're in the training, coaching, consult, we're in the people space in a nutshell, but, but why do we do what we do is, is that aligning leaders and teams to achieve? And that's, that is our calling. If you will, that purpose that really drives us is that and through history and client relationships, we've, we've actually seen that we actually do that and deliver that.

So that's something we're very proud of as, as an evolution. So I want to kind of stick to that lane over time. And, you know, writing books is more of a supplemental. My goal. credibility component and value add and being a thought leader. It's not a business dream. If you will, you don't get rich and famous writing the book.

You, you likely will potentially generate some business opportunities as a result of it. But while I have four, I've got two or three under me yet that, that will come out over the next number of years. And sort of like a tattoo, they just keep coming out over time and decided.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no. And I definitely want to get into that because you know, I think authorship is so cool.

I think it's something that a lot of people. Think about but never do. But before we get into that, I wanted to spend a little bit more time with you. Specifically with consulting, mentorship, coaching, and training. I think there's a lot of people who get a little confused about what each of them is. I was hoping that you could maybe define them specifically on how X5 handles it and what, what the X5 definition would be of coaching, training, consulting.

Mike Mack: Love it. Well, first of all, I got to give you a plug again because you're probably one of the greatest. Flippin interviewers I've had in a long time because you, you make this super easy for me. So I'm super grateful for that. And I'm grateful to enhance our relationship going forward to Kelly as well.

It's a wonderful question and it does come up a lot. So we get inquiries, whether we get, we get lots of referrals. So because we've been doing this long enough, I'm grateful for that. But if we get a general inquiry on our website, if someone that doesn't know us and we're getting a traction, Google SEO is a bit more optimized that we.

We're found out there in the world wide web, if you will. So usually here's how it goes down. Someone has an issue. Yeah, we we need some help with our team. Okay. So we have a process on the front end, Kelly, we call it discovery process. Lots of organizations have it. They call it, call it what they will, but ours is fairly tailored.

Ours is forward thinking. So, you know, if we looked out a few years out. What's happening in your business that you're happy. Oh, well, the teams aligned. They're focused. So let's use a car dealership as an example. Sales service parts. They're all on the same page. We're heading in the same direction. Well, then we also need to do a bit of.

Diagnostic, if you will, on well, what are the current challenges? Well, there. They got some issues with conflict. We got a new leader and we got a senior leader and they butt heads all the time. So the more that we understand that, we make some recommendations. Because some organizations will come in and say, Hey, we want six of our leaders together for a half day and do some training.

We can do that. But it's not going to make your boat go faster. It's not going to solve all your problems. And as good as we believe we are in four hours is not going to change your team's life. Now we can do that. So that's a one and done exercise with that client. We do those from time to time. We're happy to do that.

Where that's been highly effective is that that gets supplemented with coaching. That's one to one because helping Mike versus Kelly versus Sally. It's all tailored to the individual, so that's where that we really start to see that elevation and the customization. I think, as you reference in my introduction beforehand, some organizations.

We may recommend that right at the get go, because they're looking at from a leadership perspective, we'll focus on the coaching side. So we're recommending a way of solving their challenges to make their organization better. So that's how we look at that. So corporate training typically. That might be five people to 90 people.

Literally, I've, I've, in the last 12 months, I've done a session with 93 people in a room for half day. That's not a very common thing. They had scheduled their, their time. It was really a corporate retreat with their entire employee base. We had a very big auditorium room, like a theater. So it was a perfect venue from my vantage point.

So we, we facilitated a half day session. On one of our tools, everything disks. So it was very communication driven as well. Everybody had a personalized report. So what's interesting about that particular organization, we've done that before, maybe five years ago, but this time was a bit different because now they're supplementing that with some ongoing coaching relationship with X five.

So that started about January of this year. So we're, we're going to be entering month four coming out. So that's worked out. Really? Well, the thing that we do that we're very proud of as well that by design, we operate with a fairly open retainer as well. So we kind of go in a 90 day cycle. We've taken the stop, you know, the sticker shock away and the locked in agreement away.

Is that. Hey, on a 90 day basis, we're going to invoice you. And as long as we're adding value to where we're headed, we're going to continue to do that. And that's been really well received by the majority of our clients because, Hey, here's this 90 day window. You can't move mountains in 90 days anyway, but.

The good news is 90 days. We just keep rolling on more times than not. So our goal was always to create flexibility. I know one of our longest standing clients, I was a handshake 12 years ago. There's never been a signed document anywhere. And as I said to the CEO back then, I said, well, my goal is as long as we're adding value to you, you will cut the check, so to speak.

And that 12 years later has still been the case. So something we're very proud of, but, but also at the same time, never Leaving anything to chance. You got to always make sure that you're demonstrating value always, and you got to elevate that game all the time. What we were delivering 10 years ago is very different than today because we've had to elevate our contribution with the organization.

So like anything, when you're with people, be it trainer and coaching, you've got to. That is, it's got to be an ongoing thing, not plug and play. Same old, same old. It's always changing.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. So I think, I think I have a pretty good understanding. So what you're kind of saying is that consulting is usually dealing with a challenge.

It can be with multiple people. It's not technically individualized, although I'm sure at times it can be. Whereas coaching is more of a one on one thing. You wouldn't consider coaching to be a team of three people. It would be more of a one on one.

Mike Mack: Well, for the record, I mean, technically there's group coaching as well.

So we do some of that as well. That is based on the client. That might be a more smaller organization. I mean, our typical bandwidth, we might be dealing with an average of a hundred to a thousand employees in terms of the lane that we play in. But if we're dealing with a smaller organization with 10 people, which we can help, we may do some group coaching simply because of budget and timing.

So if we're going to spend two hours with four people, that's more cost effective for them as well. So there's definitely group coaching as well. For sure. Consulting might be a bit strategic. Sounding board, training. Be it in the boardroom or the classroom is kind of a prescribed program that 10 people at the same time.

Sure. So we're, On the same page for at least those 4 hour period of time. So that that's where the tailoring comes in. Lots of our long standing organizations. We we do all of it. It depends on the day. We don't do it all at the same time, but it's it's structured. So if I work with a family based business and we work with many of them and I'm still active in the business as well.

So if I work with the CEO and the president and other members who ironically are family members, That's a holistic relationship, including strategic planning and sitting in the boardroom with a leadership team or the executive team, but also one to one sounding board insight with him at a given point, which includes the personal side of things, too.

That's the other aspect people often ask. So, Mike, does X5 do? Personal coaching. Well, we're business coaches by design. Life gets in the way of business. So we talk about life every single day. Yeah, that's the reality. Maybe business gets in the way of life.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think for most entrepreneurs, business coaching and life coaching are kind of one in the same.

Mike, you know, authorship. I want to spend a little bit of time going into authorship. You know, you're a best selling author. You're based right here in Alberta. We're very proud to have you and thank you for writing your books, your books. I, like I said, I, I haven't read all your books. I've just read lunch with leaders, but if lunch with leaders is an indicator of how the rest of your books are, I can't wait to read them.

Mike Mack: Well, I'm flattered and I'll make a comment. So I do have four books out. So the first book was relationship for keeps that book. Honestly, I, I, I wrote that book at the time was not a big moneymaker. Actually, truth be told, that was the second book, but I'll go there first. That was a book that I wanted to read and for the record, kind of loosely depicts my journey as well.

So I have some character development in that. And I dedicated that book to my mentor, Arnold, who I referenced at the outset of our show. It was really about building powerful relationships in business and in life. And. For me, relationships are critically important. So you and I seeing each other next week or a year from now, we have this connection because of the show and what we do professionally.

So that, that was an important journey. And again, you write books for different reasons. Remarkable Service was, was a pretty successful book from my vantage point. That's also on Audible. It's my only book that's, that's Audible. The other ones weren't. Lunch with Leaders will be soon. So really remarkable service.

Literally depicts a bunch of leaders where there's a bunch of stories, but some of them were small stories about a trip to Mexico or talking about a car dealership or another organization, it, et cetera, kind of tips and tricks on customer service needs to be remarkable. So, in a perfect world. You as the client remark about that service.

Hopefully you're remarking good things, not bad things about it. That book became successful in the context that there was a lot of work that came out of that in terms of customer service training or consulting as well. A little bit of a plug on that. That book came out in 2017. I'm speaking to a group of executives virtually in May out of New York.

Because I wrote that book in 2017 and I just got that asked two months ago. So it goes to show, I guess there was value in that. And what comes from that to be determined at this point in time. The the other project that I did last year was a collaboration with my colleague and the plug to my amazing colleague, Kris Schinke, who we've known each other a very long time through our MBA journey.

She's been with X Five, three plus years. We coauthored a book. How to stop the revolving door strategically. That one was very different. It was, it was a giveaway in the sense that we, we didn't want to sell a book. We gave away tons and tons of books in the marketplace and beyond really about how to stop the revolving door of talent and people like, how do we keep them?

So lots of strategies and insights on that relative to stopping the revolving door. Now, when you comment about lunch with leaders and you like it, In my own opinion, definitely the best book that I put out. I mean, I'm the author, so I'd reference that. But when I had the goal for two years ago, two and a half years ago to write Lunch with Leaders, the goal wasn't to write a fourth book.

The goal was to put together a book that was the best book that I've ever put out for an audience. That we service predominantly, which was leader. Yeah. So that was very strategic even to give you a little side story and going through the publisher and I'll talk about the woes of that, but even the subtitle of real stories of pivotal moments for today's executive, It cost me a bunch of money for that subtitle just for context.

Wow. Because even when they went through the process with me as the publisher. You know, it was like, Hey, how they made their first million. No, the book was not about that. It was about the pivotal moments, the good, the bad, the ugly of business and leadership. So that pivotal moment was, was critically important in terms of the outcome of that.

I had a pivotal moment putting that book together because I started that journey. Kind of losing track of time already. So it came out at the end of January, 2024. That was a 26 month project. Wow. And lots of delays because you lose a bit of creative permission because you're writing stories about other people.

And I interviewed them and. Did a transcript and try to make sense of that. But I really wanted their stories to be in their words as well. I didn't want it to Kelly said this. No, I wanted Kelly to say what he did specifically. Yeah, it was important. So anyway, it took a long time. People were busy. It took them a while to get back on giving me some input because I kind of gave them a raw chapter before it was fully refined and edited.

And what you read today, the the pivotal moment for me was literally almost a year ago. My publisher at the time went, went down, went, went bankrupt. And that, that was a pickle because all of my money into that book was paid for and my book is 72 percent done. So, wow. What are you going to do? Well, you got to fund the project to get done.

So I had to source out another I had a small publisher out of the U S who ended up being really brilliant, who I wish I met two years ago, but I didn't, so yeah. There was a lot of money in that, in that, in that particular book. And I think I have a blog on this on X five somewhere that, that I put together maybe in the last couple of months, but people say, well, what does it cost to write a book if, if you're curious, but it literally varies.

You could say it is not free, like even if you do it yourself. But, but if I were to say today, you're, you're somewhere in that. Six grand to a hundred grand. Literally lunch with leaders is not six grand for sure. There, there was a chunk of coin in that one. And, and, and reality that the bankruptcy didn't help the matter with the publisher.

That's unfortunate. So I had to, I had to pay an extra 40 percent premium to get that book done. And of course, being a Canadian, I'm paying that in us dollars too. So you're paying a premium on that. I was prepared to do that. I'm grateful that I could afford to do that, but it was about getting the book out to be the best version of lunch with leaders.

And that was really the intent. A bit of a tip on the side. If you or others ever, Hey, I'm going to write a book, people ask me this all the time. So, Hey, I'm going to write a book. So what I learned and I got professional support from that prior and it's my 4th Why are you writing this book? Who cares?

Who's your audience? And even so granular, if you were writing that book for five people, who are they? And I literally put names on that as who they were. And I think I might've referenced it in my introduction, but I, but I could say they were Eddie and David and Justin and Jeremy and other names that came to mind at the time and Richards that, that, that was who I was writing it for.

And then, then you got to fast forward. If they read it. What do they get out of insight, learning, thought, entertainment, that, that's part of the journey. So it's, you know, it's, it's more than spitting a book out, so to speak.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. I'll tell you, you know what, there's only one part of your writing journey that I'm really, really interested in.

The first word. Tell me about the first word. What did that process look like? How did you go from, okay, I'm going to write a book. I have an idea to sitting down and typing out that very first word. What was that? What was that like?

Mike Mack: Well, because I have four now and it became easier. So even if I look at Relay Remarkable Service, which was the first relationship for keeps almost was easier because I, I created a story by design while I changed the characters, but it kind of loosely depict my journey.

Because of what I do professionally, Kelly, I think I would say it. It wasn't about the first word. It was about the structure and the process and the framework. So I like structure that way. And I'm not naturally structured. So if I went lunch with leaders, well, I want to put together a bunch of chapters of great leaders stories.

That are independent of each other. So that's more near term now, rather than starting with the first book, each chapter had to be its own chapter. So you could read it in any order that you wanted to. So that was very intentional. So then you had to put together. Well, if you ask some questions, what questions would you ask these leaders?

To create a narrative of their story and I wasn't asking every single question the same way and each answer became different as well. So that framework and structure in the process becomes super important versus saying, just putting the 1st word down. So even if you look at my book, lunch with leaders now, the introduction, which is really my 1st words.

I did that when the book was 95 percent done. I mean, I reverse engineered it right where, Hey, what is this book actually about? And there's lots of great frameworks out there. So why would the audience care? What, what were the learnings for you in that journey? So. I couldn't answer that before the book was done.

So you, you can get writer's block on it as well, where, where some things flow more easily than others in terms of the narrative. But the tip is the more structure and process you can build out. And if you get stuck in my advice, go to section three, if, if that helps you, then, then you can keep that flowing.

So you have momentum, as you said earlier, because work and life gets in the way too. So you, as we're near the end, there was a lot of. Weekends because I needed that creative process. I couldn't do that on a Wednesday at nine o'clock because I was busy with a client. So that, that's kind of the magic, but the more purpose you have in the front end allows that process to be a little bit easier than I'm going to write a book about butterflies.

Yeah. Okay. Has there been a book written on butterflies before? I think there has. And who would care about that? And that, that became very powerful and compelling because I knew there's thousands and thousands of leadership books out, but there isn't a book like launch with leaders. Now, locally and Alberta wise, you're going to have more people that may appreciate lunch with leaders and somebody from New York City.

Because they have a connection with Little Potato Company or whatever organization, whether it was featured within the book or Lexus of Edmonton as an example. So that, that was a bit of a, the context of the journey as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Well, I find it really interesting too, because you don't come from a literary background.

And I think a lot of authors don't come from a literate literary background. And I know that that has kind of held Me back when I've thought about it from the standpoint of is like, could I even write a good book? Like, do I even understand how to use words in that way? And it's like, as far as I'm concerned, you've done a great job.

So how did you go about doing that without necessarily coming from a literary background?

Mike Mack: It's a great question. I, I, I think it's, it's for, first of all, it's a learned process. So I, I've become fairly aware of the process now with four. So understanding that, but credit to editors and publishers that you pay for, because like one of the highlight moments when a couple chapters were done, because they weren't all done at the same time and you get.

This edited final. Well, it wasn't even a final version because we probably edited every chapter six times. I'm sure. But when you got a professional to kind of smooth that out and, you know, manicure the lawn and you read it, it was even a while for me. So, like. Wow. And they didn't change the story. It just flowed off the page.

That's, that's what you get. That's what you pay for. So if I looked at remarkable service from 2017, if I did that today, it'd be very different. I, I'm a good communicator from a verbal perspective. I always think back, Hey, I'd like to give a copy of my book to my grade 10 English teacher back in the day in Saskatchewan.

Hey I, I, I nicely got through those classes in grade 10 I've written four books, by the way, and he'd go, I can't believe that. So it starts to get easier on the narrative of communication. So I do, I, I get what you're saying exactly, but is this interesting as well? Now, the good news is many. So, so in the case of lunch with leaders, there was an interview process and a transcript.

That's pretty raw, raw version of just like this as a conversation where you put that all the paper and you go, there's going to be some editing to it as well. You learn as you go, you learn from the process. I, I know as I write my next one and the next one thereafter, and there'll be more, the professionals will be involved at the early stages.

That's, that's something that's critically important of the, of the narrative because they, they give you insight. But you still have, you're, you're still the author. So you have to decide, I want to go this way. I don't want to go this way, but I did listen to a lot of advice. Even the publisher that came in to bail me out after the tragedy from my previous publisher, I literally listened to 95 percent of what she had to say about everything because.

It made sense. And, and again, it's still the outcome. Even though my book was a pivotal moment, it took longer. It's a way better book than if it came out a year ago because of that process. And there are people that do it. I have friends that have written books and give them credit. They, they don't all read super well.

Now, if you say lunch of leaders reads really well, even, even somebody that's in the book, there was a, someone I had lunch with yesterday. He would say, my chapter, you actually made me look incredibly good by design. He is a great guy, but, but that's the, that's the advantage of. Polishing it up to make it, make it that way.

You know, like what's on the director's cut floor of a movie. Well, there's, there's way more on the cut floor probably than, than what's in the movie sometimes. Right. So.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. And you know, like, I'll just speak to it, like the quality of the leaders that you had, their stories. Super inspirational, super amazing leaders, each one of them in their own right.

I, I think, I think your quality control of the people that you chose was amazing. Like I really do. I think you did a great job.

Mike Mack: Well, I really appreciate that. And that, that was very strategic as well. And for the record, there were Other people that I selected beforehand and for various reasons, whether they deselected themselves or there was something they weren't comfortable in sharing the story, because in some cases there were some stressful situations where I wanted the diversity as well of industry and, and geography a little bit as well.

So, you know, even from a gender perspective of 12 chapters, I have four amazing women in the book as well. And I can say that I wish I had more, but that was, that was my network that I connected with at the time that. That it worked, there wasn't a shortage of leaders to select from. So I even say in hindsight today, wow, there's a couple other leaders.

If there were 14 chapters, that's, that's easy to do, but I was interested in their story. Here's what's cool. Kelly, from my vantage point, I didn't know their story. I knew some of them very well. Some were amazing and I'll share an example and I got to give credit to Ron Tite. He was Who's a very high profile professional speaker, and I always give him plug on social media.

I've known Ron a long time, but he lives in Toronto. We don't see each other every day. We're not besties, but he is one of the best Canadian speakers that I know in Canada. He's freaking awesome at what he does. And what I appreciated about the interview process is Is personal during journey as much as anything in his book, it was a comedian hardships on the, you know, as a young man, he's a very successful guy today.

But that personal narrative was, was an incredible surprise and pleasant surprise. And for me, it kind of validated. Oh, that's why Ron Tite is who he is. So I just want to give him as an example, because he's not a guy that I see every day, and I've seen him on the stage and heard him speak a few times.

But that was an example. And then other other stories that popped up about some pivotal moment that I didn't even know that. And in fact, truth be told, of a longstanding client who's in the book, I added a piece in the book literally two months before it came out, because we never talked about the significance of that before I went, wow.

You know, your, your father and your brother are killed in a plane crash when you're 20, we did not talk about that so that you started to think, well, how does that impact your journey in life and in business that that's a significant, significant, you know, matter in your, in your life that you deal with.

So that was the other theme. There was. There was a lot of tragedy and loss that came out of it, probably half of those chapters that, that are pretty significant and the resilience of. the leaders and their teams for that matter as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. It really does speak to the internal, the internal strength of people.

It really was very impressive. One of the ones that stood out to me was Koleya Karringten. Actually, I really enjoyed her chapter. I thought it was very inspiring and very impressive. And And you're right, also had its share of tragedy in it.

Mike Mack: Very much so. And, and she's a person that unfortunately I don't get to see as often, keep in touch.

She's a, she's a powerhouse dynamo, just a ton of respect. And I'm so grateful that she's in the book because again, someone that I don't know as well, but it's cool to see her name in lights today. And she's, She's a leader in her lane of what she's up to and yeah, heck of a story and a lot of early stage tragedy of, you know, losing her father and her closest mentor at a very close, close period of time in her life as well, which is significant.

Kelly Kennedy: Sure. Not just close, but also like things were just starting to go really big for her in those moments. Like it would be, it would have been hard at a good time. Yeah, well said. Very much. Yeah. You know, you are equally just as big and influential of a leader as any of the people in that book. And you have had the chance to work with so many entrepreneurs, organizations over your 18 year career.

I guess one of the questions that I have for you is, I'm sure you've given lots of advice to people, but what type of advice might you give to, you know, some inspiring or aspiring entrepreneurs who are just kind of getting going, but yeah, they're afraid they're facing a lot of challenge. They're seeing that this is going to be hard work journey.

What's kind of the best motivational piece of advice you might give them?

Mike Mack: Well, thank you for that. Another incredible question. I'm privileged to answer it because it's something I'm very passionate about that there may not be the motivational side to get while I am. I'm a motivated kind of guy. I would like to say that I'm more inspirational, but at the same time, I'm also in what I do professionally, I focus more on influence than I do on persuasion.

So what I always say professionally from a coaching perspective, Kelly is I believe that I help influence people to do what they know they should do in the first place. I don't come up with crazy ideas that are life changing. It's just move 2 degrees to the left. That's the difference. So, so a couple items is that, you know, we have a model and 5 behaviors model.

And the 1st piece that we talk about is vulnerability based trust. So, the privilege that I have with many of those senior leaders or middle level leaders that I get to work with, particularly on the coaching side, that vulnerability based trust when you have that. Man, you can do a lot of amazing things with that.

So I learned this a number of years ago from a client, and I have to give credit to a senior gentleman out of Calgary, and I won't reference company name, but his name was Doug. So I always have to give him credit. He said, Mike, what's unique about vulnerability based trust is the more you're willing to do it, the more others are willing to help you.

So. You know, if, if you have a plan and you're going to start out and life isn't always easy and you don't just rock it to the moon and the first try, rarely does that happen is that you have to be vulnerable. So who do you get to be vulnerable with? Well, sometimes that's family. That could be a spouse that could be siblings or otherwise.

I'm a big fan of mentorship. So for the record, Why I do what I do professionally. I had mentorship for a very long time in my life since I'm 13. So I always glean some good wisdom on that. And I always learn something from each of those. It's always the quick advice. If you don't have the budget to get a leadership or executive coach.

Make sure you have a mentor or two that can guide you. No one mentor can guide you in all directions. So if you're starting out and you need a website, you need this, and you're going to hire or fire someone, you might need more than one mentor to guide you in that regard. So my mentor, Arnold, who I referenced earlier was very successful at sales.

But he's also very successful in life experience as well. He's, he's got many years on me as well. So I used him as a sounding board for years and years and years before I ever had a paid coach. So that's probably the key nugget as well. A couple other items of inspiration or influence. You got to be resilient.

You've got to, you know, to get momentum, you got to keep going. You can't stop a line that I've used more recently in the last few years. I always say from a coaching perspective, Kelly clarity is a beautiful thing. So, if you know where you're going and why you're going there and how you're going to get there.

Those are some pretty fundamentally good places to start. And when I start a business, I'm going to be a coach. Okay. Who are you going to coach? Because we do have people that have an interest in being affiliated with X5 and we're flattered on that. And we're privileged to have some great people on our team, but, but even some really smart, educated people struggle with what do you actually want?

Why do you want it? How are you going to get there? So those are some of the basic fundamentals that, that even when I look back 17 plus years ago and in my 18th year, I have way more clarity today than I did then, but grateful that I leaned on people at the earlier stages and Arnold, my mentor was definitely one of them for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, and same with me. I've had plenty of influential people that I wouldn't be where I'm at today without their help. And I think that's it. It's like, and that was a big, a big part of the book as well, was just that you have to, you know, You have to rely and work with people because nobody's going to do it on their own.

Mike Mack: Now, you know, on that note, and this, this is another plug for a strategic coach because Shannon Waller is, is in the chapter as well. She's a senior leader within strategic coaching. I'm privileged that I was a former client of strategic coach. They reference a lot unique ability. So I want to give them credit strategic coach on unique ability.

If you're going to be an entrepreneur and a leader, what is your unique ability? So some leaders are great at building something. And some people are great at an idea and rallying the troops to follow them. The more that you can play in your unique ability, you're, you're good at it and you love it.

You're going to have a rewarding career, even if you fail at times, because when I, when I say what I say today and yesterday with clients, I love what I do so much that, that if I could, I would do it for free. I don't, I get paid reasonably well to do what I do, and I'm grateful for that. But, but I've helped out many people on the side as time permits.

Because I love what I do. Yeah. And that's, that's a calling. And you know, not everybody can do that. If you're, if you're going to build a house or you, you, you do roofing, well, you can't do freebies all the time either. I understand that, that reciprocity, I guess that's, that's, I'm in that lane already anyway, because I can give up my time and my expertise.

I had one of those today. I had a 30 minute call with someone, hopefully had an impact. And I had to carve out my calendar, but, but I was prepared to do that. I can't do that every day, but I did in that situation.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And I love that. I connect with that so much because the same thing with me, right? Like I love business development.

I don't know what the heck I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this. So same thing. I love what I do. And it's one of those things that I'm blessed to be paid to do it.

Mike Mack: Well, and as I get to know you more, Kelly, and one of the things that I privilege that I've been able to be on a few shows and podcasts over the years and try to be a good, good host or a good guest, I should say genuinely, incredibly impressed with what you put together on, on your, you know, on your business model and the program and what you're trying to do you are genuinely very gifted at that as well.

So if you can monetize that good on you, but. It's a real privilege for me as well because I had that connection with you and we talked about the show. You, you are very good at that. More importantly, hopefully your, your downloads and otherwise if people are, are subscribing and doing what they're doing, but you, you've got something there that I really applaud you on.

That's why it was a no-brainer to say, I I'd be honored to be part of your, of your program and you and I together. Can hopefully make a difference with other people that have the opportunity to listen to your show and programs.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, well, thank you so much. Yeah, it's been it's been amazing. I I had no idea that people would listen at all, so I'm just blessed that people do tune in every week.

Mike Mack: But, It validates, it validates what you do or what I do. I mean, there, people are, Are thirsty for, for knowledge and information. And here's, what's interesting is that there's no lack of that. I mean, you can, you can Google anything. You can ask chat, TPT, anything. You can learn something. If you want, I think the magic is the takeaway.

So I'm a big reader, but I'm a bigger audio book listener because it's a time management thing as well. And some of my favorite books I've literally listened to three times and I, it's amazing how wise you get on the third time. Yeah. Yeah. When, when that, when that resonates, some people can't listen to audio.

Yeah. I just, I just can't learn. Well, then, then you've got to read and that's up to you. But as you know, whatever you learn is what's the takeaway and how do you apply it and how do you, how do you become a better version of yourself or how does your business change that's. I'm in that business of, of, of growth and development and aligning leaders and teams to achieve to achieve whatever they want.

Basically that whether that's more widgets or sales or more retention of people or world harmony or peace, that's their objective and goal. And if we can help, that's, That's what I get up in the morning, really early to do.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, me and you are blessed actually to be in the line of work that we have both ended up in.

Because it really is a giving place. We get to help the world. We get to, we get to help people do amazing things. And I, I like to think that, you know, every company that we work with over time, They're going to change the world in their own way. And I got to contribute to that just a little bit. And it makes a big impact over time.

Mike Mack: I love that. That's that's a, that's an inspirational statement there. That one, I love that. And that again, validates you're on the right journey of your own unique ability and your own entrepreneurial journey as well. So keep up the great work on that as well. So thank you.

Kelly Kennedy: No, it it means a lot coming from you and I truly mean that, Mike, we've had an amazing show.

There's a lot of people listening now that are thinking, man, I think I might need X five. What's the best way for them to book a consultation with you and your team?

Mike Mack: Yeah. Thank you for the, for the kind reference on that. Obviously our, our website is a great place to go at x5management.com. Once I get into there, we, we, we have popups that, that they can send a request specific to what they want to talk about. Okay. Thanks. Info@x5management.com is our, is our corporate email, if you will. One of the things that's important. So if someone is listening to that, we're never selling our services anyway.

So if somebody that was listening today said they want to talk to X5, me or my colleagues, we always do that discovery process. Anyway, we're not selling anything. What are your challenges? Where do you want to go? And if we can help you, we can make a recommendation or proposal. So that courtship on the front side is really important to us.

It's never a rushed process. We've done that before where they became a client next week, and we've done that, and they became a client in 18 months. It varies from where they are. Sometimes it's putting feelers out. Sometimes there's a greater sense of urgency on what they need to do. We continue to upgrade our website, but our website is pretty functional in the context of training, coaching, consulting, we have videos that articulate some of the various programs that we have and the roster of our team as well.

But it you know, maybe a closing comment on, on, on the, on the new client aspect is people have asked before, you know, who's your best client, anyone that wants to improve their business is really the starting point. And if we can help in the lane that we're in. Then they're an ideal client from our vantage point, whether they're big or small, we always, there's a bit of a lane of the number of people that people work with within their company.

We don't rarely know their revenues or otherwise, but if they have 200 employees, we know they're a sizable company. We understand that, but we never turned anybody away on the inquiry of what they do. And our, our biggest client today has about 4, 000 employees and they're. They're a billion dollar entity, they're, they're large.

At the end of the day, you're, you're dealing with one leader at a time. I mean, it's the same program is dealing with one person of 10. The process is the same. The tailoring and the customizing is really important because we want to make it all about them and their business. So it becomes personalized, customized in terms of that lane.

You know, the upside of what we get to do professionally as well, Kelly, is you do learn a lot about industry because you're dealing with home building or construction or manufacturing or automotive or truck dealerships or recruiting, whatever the case may be, or law firms, like from a client based perspective, cities city of St. Albert has been a client in the past, Alberta municipalities, but we deal in the corporate lane as well. You, you learn a lot of stuff matter, matter how you slice it, because you work with people that. You can't help but understanding their business you know, when, when you, when you get engaged in that, in that journey.

So, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, it is amazing. And I'm, I'm very thankful that you joined us today, Mike, and I look forward to one day having lunch with you as a leader.

Mike Mack: Or a client or whatever the case may be. The good news is our weather is heading in the right direction. I would, I would love that. I mean, we had the privilege of being in this great city and Home of the Stanley Cup, champions of the Edmonton Oilers of 2024.

That is for foreshadowing just for reference. But, but you gotta believe, you gotta have a manifestation out there in what's possible. Sure. But again, I, I, I want to just congratulate you again on the success and the journey and whether you've been an entrepreneur for four years or 40 years, you, you've, you've got the DNA to do that and this is a.

I won't even say a neat concept. This is a needed concept of what you put together. So I I'm just super proud and privileged that I got to play a small part of it. And I can't wait to listen back to the, to the interview with each of us, because. I'll probably learn something in the process as well. I think that's the, that's the takeaway.

So.

Kelly Kennedy: I I couldn't agree with you more. I, you know, I learned something from every show. What's super funny too. And people think that you learn a lot in these interviews, but I, I actually agree with you, I learned more when I finally listened back to our show. That's when I really get the takeaways from what was discussed here.

You would think in the moment, but when you're in some ways, like in a conversation, it's sometimes hard to really narrow in on the fine points, but I find I go back and I listen to each show and that's when it really hits me. How impactful this conversation really is.

Mike Mack: Closing comment on a lunch with leaders.

I mean, while the book is out and that's great. I, when it was done, done and I look back. I could say I'm a better version of myself as a leader, thanks to the 12 great leaders that are in the book because of that process, because as I went through, oh, I, I need to be more resilient. In some cases, I need to make a tough decision.

In this case, that those were the takeaways for me, probably read that book 7 times. I'm certain. So that and hopefully you do that as well. I know I was talking to an individual that was in the book yesterday. He's been through it a couple of times already. I mean, he's, And this is a person that's got a ton of executive experience.

But then he's going to, we're going to be hanging out for lunch with five of the eight Edmonton based leaders coming up. So he's super excited about that. I'm excited to host it. There's no agenda really. It's like, let's get together. I'm not selling anything. It's just a connection to literally break bread together with lunch with leaders as well.

So that's the goal.

Kelly Kennedy: That's amazing. That's going to be one heck of a good lunch. I'm excited. You bet. Well, again, thanks for the opportunity. Thank you, Mike. This has been episode 142 of the Business Development Podcast. We've been graced by Mike Mack, President of X5 Management right here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

If you have not read Lunch with Leaders, you can pick it up on Amazon. I'll make sure that there's a link in everything that we post for this. Until next time. We'll catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization. Is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.