What is The Business Development Bank of Canada: Part 2 with Jason Garner

What is The Business Development Bank of Canada: Part 2 with Jason Garner

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 110 of the business development podcast. And for today's expert guest interview, we are doing part two of what is The Business Development Bank of Canada. Today, we're chatting all about advisory services with Jason Garner. Stick with us. This is an awesome episode and you are not going to want to miss it.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said business happens over years and years value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal. And we couldn't agree more. This is the business development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development, advice, tips, and experiences. And you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs. And business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by

capital business development, capitalbd.ca.

Let's do it. Welcome to the business development podcast, and now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello, welcome to episode 110 of the business development podcast. We are on part two of our interview and educational episode about Business Development Bank of Canada. We are absolutely, absolutely pumped to do this series today. I would like to introduce to you Jason Garner, a seasoned professional with a illustrious career in sales and sales leadership.

Now making significant contributions as a key member of the Business Development Bank of Canada, BDC. Born and raised in Edmonton, Alberta, with over 25 years of experience, his impressive journey includes pivotal roles in renowned national companies such as TELUS, Grainger, Grand & Toy, with a predominant focus on the oil and gas industry for the past 15 years.

While Jason achieved notable success in the oil and gas sector, he harbored a deeper desire to utilize his experience for a more meaningful purpose. Today, as an integral part of the BDC, Jason channels his passion for helping entrepreneurs and small businesses succeed. Armed with extensive industry knowledge, he guides and advises, believing in providing everyone with an opportunity to achieve their goals.

Beyond his professional pursuits, Jason is a devoted father, finding fulfillment in coaching his two teenage daughters activities. His commitment to their development mirrors his dedication to fostering success in others. In his moments of relaxation, Jason enjoys the tranquility of the lake, embodying a harmonious balance between career and personal life.

Join us today as we welcome Jason Garner, a driving force at the intersection of experience, Passion and commitment as he continues to make a positive impact within the business development bank of Canada. Jason, it's an honor to have you on the show.

Jason Garner: That's the greatest introduction in the history of the world.

So thank you very much. I got to record that. I got to record that and enter every room like that. It'd be great. Y'all really pumped to be here. Thanks very much. I know the first time we met it was you know, we hit it off right away. And when you told me. That this was, this was doable. I was just, I was in a hundred percent.

Thanks very much for the intro.

Kelly Kennedy: The honor is very much mine. When Tara introduced us yeah, I knew immediately that I wanted to do this series, that this series was something that would be meaningful to Canadians. Across the country, frankly the Business Development Bank of Canada is an integral part of our community and our country, and I think it's a little bit misunderstood, you know, and I know I don't want to say just the Business Development Bank of Canada, I think a lot of entrepreneurial supports are misunderstood, and so one of the goals that I set out to do with this show was to shine a light on some of the things available to people to help them succeed, because I think I think if more people understood what was available to them, more businesses would succeed.

Jason Garner: Yeah, well, they don't know what they don't know, right? And it is, yeah, I, I can't tell you how many times. Seeing an entrepreneur for the first time, they're like, Oh, we didn't know you did that. And they'd had, they'd even had a 10 year relationship with BDC, let alone the other institutions as well. So half of the struggle is getting in front of the right people.

And then the other part is just showing value. And that's, that's the best part of the role to be honest. So yeah, there's two sides of the BDC. You had Rob Lajoie on before, and that's sort of the finance side of it. And again. It's not a bank bank. It's not a debit card and bricks and mortar. It's a federal government owned bank that is dedicated to entrepreneurs only.

And the flip side of it is, is advisory services, which is consulting. And that's the side that I, I reside in. So we work obviously very close together, but two completely different offerings to the, to the entrepreneurs.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, with Rob, I had him take us back to the beginning of his career and run us through how he ended up with BDC and he had an incredibly impressive career as well.

Spent basically all of it within the BDC, which was very impressive. I was very impressed by that. And and Rob's character too. He's just such, such a kind and smart person. I really enjoyed that conversation.

Jason Garner: He's a good guy for sure. I'm different for me though. I've only been here a year and a half. You alluded to born and raised in Edmonton.

So it was you know, opportunities with working with some of those national companies that you talked about to leave. But it's family first for me. And so my parents and sister are here. My family goes out to the lake, like you'd mentioned as well. So for me, it was just about what are you going to do in Edmonton and what.

What are you going to do to create the quality of life that you want to do? So I, I, I didn't know what I wanted to do coming out of high school. I played hockey at a fairly high level and the dream died in the 16 and 17th year. But I just always knew that I wanted to do something creative. So I actually tried to get into Grant McEwen.

With their advertising and public relations of course, but my math 30 mark wasn't high enough. And again, don't get me going on how that didn't really matter, but that's just check the box type of stuff. Yeah in business and, and the options for second year, Nate, we're marketing finance, accounting.

And, and again, I was so focused on the creative stuff and not really liking the number stuff, which the irony of working for a bank is, is there. So. Yeah, just finished with a marketing diploma from Nate and then spent a year backpacking in Australia. So, wow. Yeah, finished, left at 22, came back at 23.

And by that time, so many of the people that I went to school with and my high school friends had either graduated from U of A, or NAIT, or Grant McEwen were working. So it was sort of time to get going, but still didn't really know what I wanted to do or where this path was going to go. But I knew I wanted to be flexible.

I knew I wanted to be customer facing. So that really led to sales.

Kelly Kennedy: Yep. It's so funny because I hear you talk and, and you know, I'm a lot younger than you, but I still, I see myself. I like, that's, that's, that feels like exactly my path too. It was like, but I think I was 23 by the time I figured out that, you know, I think I'm on the right path.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Well, I needed a job, so I got it. My first job, like real job after school was collections at Telus. Oh, wow. And this is like, landline only, monopoly. It was everybody's only way of communication back at the time. Shaw hadn't got into the game. All these places it was it was tell us and tell us only so it was just a bunch of 23 year old yahoo Who's drunk with power that you could cut off phones if people weren't paying their bills?

So it was just a really Really interesting gig and then I had a bunch of friends that were in outside sales and I sort of found that life Intoxicating a little bit right? You got the company car. You got to wear nice clothes. You got to be in front of customers the thrill of the the thrill of the chase the the reward financially and Lifestyle of sales.

And so I knew I couldn't sit behind a desk. So that really started at Grand & Toy when I was 27 years old. And that was really the start of what now sort of is the 24 year journey of this career. For sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Do you mind if we stay there for a second? Just because you have spent, you spent an incredibly long time at Grand & Toy 2000 to 2012.

And you did everything from director of business development to district sales. Dude, what? Like Obviously, you've been through it, you know, like, I didn't get into business development myself until, you know, the end of 2012. Yeah. And so, how has it changed? What was it like back then? What was it like in the early 2000s?

Jason Garner: Grand & Toy was like 10 degrees at university for me. There was so much learning in there because it was the real world. And, and, and I will say to this day, it was by far the most strategic sell of anything that I've ever been involved with. Because it is high volume, low dollar, and it touches everybody.

So the total cost of procurement of office supplies is insane. So it had to be. It had to be a strategic sell because it was one of those things that you think it's just pens and pencils, but everything had to be okayed by the CEOs and the presidents. And really, we really cut our teeth in the mass sector with, with hospitals and, and universities and, and, and big things like EPCOR and that type of stuff where they would spend 7 million a year on what Grand & Toy would sell.

And if their order size was 20 versus 150, that's the cost of that to the organization. So I loved every bit of Grand & Toy. I loved, you know, starting when I was 27 and business development was, was absolutely just eat what you kill full commission, go out there, knock down the doors. Just young and dumb, didn't know anything, right?

Just went out there and and it moved into sales leadership probably two years after that. And I was. I'll in sales leadership until a year and a half ago when I started at at BDC, but I loved, I loved my time in sales leadership and I loved it because everything was different. It was dealing with the people.

It was dealing with multiple different companies. It was it was helping people get better. It was seeing the success of other people that rolled up into your success. I've sort of when I started in sales leadership, I sort of found my place for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Man. Yeah. Like I, I think back to the start of my BD career and I was 23.

Right. And same as you, right? Oil and gas, right? We're in Edmonton. That's, that's our world, right? It basically, you know, I mean, I used to tell people, it doesn't matter if you work for McDonald's, you work for oil and gas, right? It all goes somewhere. And that's where it goes.

Jason Garner: Well, if you decide to stay in Edmonton, that's the, you know, that's the butter that butters the bread.

Right. And so. Everything's connected to it for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: It is. It is. And it's like, you have to, when you work in the industry, I think you see it. I think you can get disconnected if you, if you don't have the connection or you haven't seen it, but it really does almost everything we do. At some level support is supported by an oil and gas worker.

Like it's, it's crazy. But yeah, obviously being young and that time you know, just happened to be the time that I entered the industry was the time that, you know, a lot of these older oil and gas execs were still at the top, but now they're 65, you know what I mean? They're at those retiring years.

And I remember being the young punk in the room and thinking, Oh, crap. How the heck am I ever going to build a relationship with these people? Like we are, we are three generations apart.

Jason Garner: Yeah. I, Oh, for sure. Like, again, I'm dating myself, but I would say that the, the hugest difference between starting at 27 and where I'm at now is just the, the.

Education and the philosophy and the strategy behind buying, right? So before it was, you know, I'm generalizing, but before it was relationship driven, it was who's the cheapest. It was, what have you done for me lately? There was kickbacks and incentives and programs and all those different things right now.

And now you've got a two year degree or diploma program at NAIT. And purchasing and procurement, right? So it's, you know, dealing with some old school guy. And then the next day you're dealing with someone that's 23 that just came out of NAIT and has, you know, a checklist of 65 things. They're looking for vendors and it's, you know, you know environmental concerns and carbon footprint and all those different things that now companies who sell stuff have to have.

Answers for and responsibilities to, like, it's just completely changed in the 25 years that I've been in the gig for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, I bet. Like, it's completely changed in, you know, in the 13 years that I've been doing it, right? Like, it's, it really does. The, the world is changing so quickly. Technology is evolving so quickly that I always tell people you're, I mean, no matter what you're an expert in, you were only an expert until yesterday because tomorrow is a brand new day.

And it really is. Like, that's never been more true. I'm sure there was a time in history when. You know, if you learned a skill, that skill was probably the same for your entire career, like not a whole lot changed, but at the rate of change now with technology, with like you said, just simple things like ESG and what people value, you know what I mean, I would say business is being tipped on its head probably every five years at this point.

Jason Garner: Yeah, and I think the sales game and the business game has always been who's the most nimble and reactive, right? Like you can proactively go out and build a brand that attracts people, but at the end of the day, Right now it's, it's so customer driven and it's, it's almost like, you know, as the, as the company that's going out there and selling a service or a product, you're almost getting interviewed back by the, by who, who you're trying to sell to, because there's just different stipulations and different wants and, and.

And smarter, more strategic people on the other end of it, which is great because that just makes a better, a longterm relationship built on the right stuff.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, I think what it's ultimately doing, and I don't want to say that we didn't create win win scenarios in the past because I'm sure we did plenty.

But I think it's never been more important for a buying decision to create a win win solution with your customer.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I knew like 14 years of Grand & Toy with I think four different positions. They just were purchased by office depot and a lot of change and there was an offer for a package and I was just like, yeah, you know, it was a different business.

It was time to go. And I really wanted to get into something that was more oil and gassy and with, and so knew some guys that had. Switched. It was Acklands Grainger at the time, which is now Grainger. But It's it was far more industrial than oil and gas, and there is a difference, right? Industrial is machine shops and like the finning OEMs and that type of stuff.

But it did give me definitely access to a different type of customer, whereas the decision makings for most of the office supply stuff were either. CEOs, CFOs, and, and office managers and directors of procurement, where a lot of the day to day decisions based on Acklands Grainger stuff was the guys in the shop, right?

So like polar opposite needs, wants, and experience.

Kelly Kennedy: Interesting. What did you notice? Obviously that was a big difference. What would you say was the biggest difference of those, of those two you know, buying personalities?

Jason Garner: What I really liked about the guys in the shop is that everyone's doing their job and they knew what they needed to do the job well and safe.

Where sometimes at a really, really high level in a boardroom, they're disconnected from the users of the product or the service, right? Yeah that, that was the big difference and Grainger was phenomenal because I got to do so many unbelievable things. I got to do tours of the jail. I got to ride tanks, shoot guns, all the different stuff, right?

Kelly Kennedy: That's so awesome. Yeah.

Jason Garner: So I went from every boardroom and educational institution at Grand & Toy. Now I've been every machine shop mining camp and, every gas plant in the world. So it was, it was a great, it was a, like 180 on how you would approach selling. But I, again, I was a sales leader, so it was my guys and gals doing it.

So it was just a different approach, how to lead them. Right. So it was, I wasn't the doer. I was the manager and, and, and, and leader, but changed the way that I led because it was different industries, different type of people and different type of customers.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. And, you know, obviously leadership is way different and I, you know, I mean, if you're like me, you probably led by example, right?

You didn't tell people to do things that you didn't do. You said, this is how I do it. This is how I want it done because this works. Yeah. What, what was some of the takeaways that you got from that leadership experience?

Jason Garner: Just don't ask people to do something you wouldn't do yourself, right? So, I was two miles down in a mining shaft, looking at a machine, because why would I send someone else down there if I didn't do it myself, right?

And so, one, because I hate being in an office. So that, like, I'm not a hero, I just like, I just hate doing that. So I like being out all the time.

Kelly Kennedy: We'll just edit this part out so that you sound like a hero. How about that?

Jason Garner: So, hey, that'd be real. But anytime you spend time with the people that you're managing and leading, it's if it's windshield time, it's in front of customers, whatever you're building rapport, you're getting to understand them.

And you're, you know, you could have 15 people that reports you and they're 15 different personalities and their drivers are different. Right? So I just love spending time with the people that that were on my team and had lots of success in that model of building a, I hate the word family and business because if we get into it later, you'll, you'll understand that.

But just building a really good. Community around your team and working for a company that sort of supports that, too, which is great, right? Because I've always had a boss, too. I'm not an entrepreneur. I've always had a boss. So, you know, I've seen good leadership and bad leadership and sort of tweaked my foundation of how I roll based on some of the good and bad stuff that I've seen.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, some of the best leadership I've ever seen, I know that we, we kind of avoid the family or the F word, but I'll tell you what, some of the best leadership I've ever seen in organizations comes from organizations where the values are similar. Yeah, 100%. It's just if you have everybody. Working to support the next person beside them, it just gets done better.

It gets done quicker, more effectively, and right. And, yeah, I get it, we always try, because it's like business, we try to keep it like, you know, business, right? But the reality is, if you work right next to somebody, day in, day out, for weeks and weeks and months and years, It, it does start to become like family.

And, but the other side is there is a benefit to that. I think it starts to struggle at larger teams. I agree with you completely. I think that large organizations, it does not work well, but I think smaller organizations, specifically mom and pop style shops. It is incredibly beneficial to have that level of relationship.

Jason Garner: Like this is the world I live in now, right? I would say probably 50 to 60 percent of the entrepreneurs that we get in front of or it's either second, first, second, or third generation. And there's family working within there. So it's, it's, it's opened my eyes to what. How it can work effectively and and when you've got a family business, there's so much emotion involved in it.

There's so much skin in the game. There's so much legacy to that that it's really interesting to sort of navigate through these people making decisions based on business acumen versus emotion. It's been probably one of the biggest things that I've seen in the last year and a half. And it's been great to see because, you know, You love to see people who are great people succeed.

And that's basically my whole job at BDC. So it's like, it's, it's a sweet gig for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: It's an awesome gig. And I know talking with you, that was kind of the vibe I got is like, you know what? That's cool. You're doing exactly what you were meant to do. I have no question on that, Jason. You know, you're absolutely right though.

The investment, right? Like, I think you talked specifically about a family owned business, right? Like obviously capital, my, my business is a small family owned business. Like we're only three years old. We're growing, we're learning, we're doing it all. But like the investment that you get in your organization, when it When it is yours, it is something else.

It's not the same. It's not the same as like, you know, a privately owned corporation that's owned by, or that's managed, say, by private shareholders or something along those lines, where it's like, you know, if it works, it works. I feel like the investment that you get when it's your organization is, it has to work.

So we're going to do whatever it takes to make sure it does. Right?

Jason Garner: When you're, when you work for a company like Grainger or, or, or Telus or Purolator, like it's, it's, it's not really their money. Right. It's not, it's their job. It's, you know, you, you meet people that are very invested in their job.

You meet people that are just there to collect the check and paint by numbers. And so it's a different, it's a completely different experience walking into a machine shop at Edmonton where. It's a family owned business, and this is how he puts food on his kids table. The discussion is completely different, and it's so authentic.

And and so again, like, it keeps going to the emotion of dealing with entrepreneurs because it's it's it's everything to them. And and it's a big responsibility. And that's again, it's a big responsibility to take on. But it's the best part of it when it when it works out.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, it is. It is. And you know, let's just, let's just head into it.

Right. Obviously the last episode that we did was very much on what is BDC. How did it get started? You know, we got, we got, Robert gave us an absolutely amazing, you know, background in history on BDC and why it exists and how it's evolved throughout the years and where it sits today. And then he gave us a rundown on the financial services.

But the financial services is just one part, one part of the whole machine. That is Business Development Bank of Canada. The one that I'm really excited to speak with you today on is advisory services, because you guys do an absolute ton. And I think most people. They don't have an idea what BDC actually does.

Jason Garner: No, just even when I changed jobs and posted on LinkedIn, like, I have over, whatever, 1, 500, everybody's got a million. But so many, so many people reached out saying, what? Like, and these are people that have been in business in this marketplace and in Western Canada for 30 years. So it was an eye opener to realize what the education level needed to be for the area that I was responsible for.

And it's, it's, it is part of the banker's jobs as well to go out there and have existing warm relationships and say, Hey, I'm going to bring an advisory in. But there's a component of my job, which is, you know, personal networking events. Finding the right customer, that type of stuff too. So there's, you know, there's four or five different streams that, that come in to me on a daily basis, hopefully, to stay busy.

But that's one of them for sure. But yes, not a lot of people know about advisory if you, if you don't know BDC. So. At the end of the day, I think if you talk to talk to every client partner across Canada at BDC, everyone would explain it a bit differently because it's how and what it means to you and what it should mean to the customer.

So the way that I explain advisory services is it's consulting services offered by BDC. You don't have to be a BDC financial client to use consulting and advisory services, but for the most part, that's the cohesive relationship as you're already a partner with us and on the finance side, and then we come in to see where we can help and the way that I explain it.

And I'm sure there's a very stoic, you can find it on our website advisory services, a chapter a chapter on what it is. Here's here's what here's how I explain it to the customers that we sit in front of. And just when I'm sitting around having a beer with with another business associate there's really 3 silos of of what we do.

And within each silo, there are. Multiple programs and the programs are built around a methodology and a delivery methodology on on how we want to help the entrepreneur. But obviously, every business is very, very different and unique. So the foundation of the methodology is there and it's customized. So there's 3 silos.

The 1st silo is how do I grow my business? And so within that, there's a lot of programs around sales and marketing website growth and technology. So it's strictly a customer that's in a very healthy spot that wants to grow their market. There's a, there's a big component of international expansion in there.

So it's just pure growth from a healthy organization going into a different market or redefining their market or going after different customers or finding out what their brand strategy is. All those different things. So in that silo is how do I grow? The second silo, 90 percent of my time in is how do I know I'm growing profitably?

Hmm. So. I would, so within that, a lot of operational efficiency programs quite a few financial management programs and, and that's really generic because he just, just even under operational efficiency, that could mean 63 different things to different people and where and financial management. It really means.

Understanding how to run your business based on profitability and, and finding out how to use your business, how to use your money smartly, looking forward, how to predict things, how to forecast and I'll get after I tell you the 3rd silo, I'll tell you why we spend most of our time in that silo. And the 3rd silo is how to keep up with the growth.

And that is a lot around technology a lot around human resources, and this is probably the last time you'll hear me say the word human resources because that sort of has the connotation of paint by numbers and, and, and rules and that type of stuff. We at BDC call it people strategies. Especially around Northern Alberta, because it's about attracting the right people and retaining the right people.

Because probably the number one thing we run into in the, you know, manufacturing and oil and gas and all the way up to Grand Prairie to Fort Mac, to Fort Mackay, all those places is just keeping people. Yes, right. So how do I keep up with the growth? And because we, we see customers grow too fast at the detriment to their organization, into their, their cash flow.

So those 3 things, how do I grow? How do I grow profitably? And how do I keep up with the growth? And inside those 3 silos. Are a bunch of different programs that are super customizable to what the customer needs and we can blend them and that type of stuff. But the philosophy, myself, I'm a generalist.

I go out there and with all the bankers and meet people and, and, and see if there's an opportunity for us to help. And then the next step for me is to bring in a business advisor of that very specific silo and a specific area of that silo. And when the customer decides to move forward with us, behind myself and the business advisor is an entire net national network of delivery consultants that are former entrepreneurs, CFOs, CEOs, presidents, directors of technology.

So I keep on, I always want to say to the customer, the resources that you're being given and that you have access to with us is just something you wouldn't have if you didn't.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I think when people see the Business Development Bank of Canada, what they see is loans. They don't, they don't, they don't understand that it's actually so much more.

And I think that was the really cool takeaway. And the reason that I wanted to have this interview was that That's just one part, one, like, and I don't want to say small part because it is a big part, but it's just one part of a very large machine, and it really is a bank for entrepreneurs. That's all it's for.

Jason Garner: I've got 25 years in the sales racket. I know it's about, you know, it's always about chasing the carrot. It's about the, it's about hitting your budget. It's about. Hitting your goal. It's about winning the national sales trip. It's about, you know, money, money, money, and figured sales guy. It should be about that.

This isn't built around that. It's not about choking something down a customer's throat because you need to hit a budget. This is about the health of the organization. Because healthy companies pay us back quicker and take other loans out. So the rub is that we're in it for the long term of the relationship too.

We're not the one and done guys that come in and do the project and then leave you. You know, every project has a start to end date, but the relationship is for the continuing throughout the term of your entire. We're always there, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. And that was definitely one of the key takeaways from our conversation was they're like, you're like, dude, I get calls like all day long from past customers just talking to me or asking me a quick question and it's like, it's no big deal.

Like that's the relationship we have now.

Jason Garner: Yeah. And I think the second part of that too, is that we should become a resource. I, I sit in front of customers all the time and it's not about them, you know, signing up for a mandate. It's about helping them with their business and becoming that resource and using my, you know, mo, modest.

Connection of people in the industry and in the market to say, Hey, this guy's going to give you a call. He's gone through this. And you know, that's, that's just part of one being a nice guy to building that relationship. So when they do need something and I want to do something, they come to us the next time as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, yeah, I was doing some research ahead of the show specifically on advisory services because I also wanted to get up to speed so that I kind of knew what was going on. And some of the statistics are actually a little bit unbelievable. So, 40 years of advisory services. That is crazy. You know, obviously when we got into this, it was originally started to support the transition away from the war effort.

That was kind of the original purpose of the business Development Bank of Canada was to help companies who had all transitioned to support the war effort, get back to building refrigerators instead of bombs. And, and obviously that evolved throughout the years as to not just large industry, but how do we help small industry?

And then obviously now, yeah, 40 years of advisory services. You guys have a 94 percent satisfaction rate.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah. That's important. Well, we measure that we measure what the customer thinks of us more than more than really anything. And yeah, it's a pretty good number. And really, I think how, how the programs work is that, you know, there's milestones set out at the start of the program so that, you know, that you, one, are on track with what you want to get out of it.

Yeah, to that. We've also keep, you know, kept you accountable to being engaged in the in the program, but mostly you see the value in it already so that we can move to the next step. And I think that there's that works the best because 1. You know, there's not a ton of money up front, and then you're not getting what you want.

And then it builds resentment. 2, it just keeps the customer accountable because there's a, there's a quite a significant vetting process before I move forward with any customer because they have to be in it for the right reason. They have to be in it, they have to have the time there could be there's so many entrepreneurs that are run off their feet that just don't have time to figure this out.

Yeah. That's not the type of person that we need to partner with because we need you to engage in this process so that we can assess what's really going on and help you build your business. So the 94 percent is is a great number, but a lot behind that is a lot of checks and balances to make sure that the customer is happy throughout it so that, you know, if we're off track, we can get on track.

So we're sort 94 through it to make sure that everybody is satisfied.

Kelly Kennedy: No, but that makes a lot of sense, right? Like you should know before you take on a project, and obviously us at capital, we do that, right? We evaluate, can we actually accomplish this goal? Can we help this customer actually achieve this?

Is this realistic? Or do we need to come back to them and say, Hey, I think maybe this is something we could actually do. Does that make sense for you? But you're absolutely right. There needs to be like a, essentially a prequalification process where you can make sure that yes, my services are the right services.

At this time for this customer, because you're right. I don't want to end up in a situation where the customer's pissed off at me because I can't deliver and I want a 95 or a hundred percent satisfaction rate too. And how do you do that? You're right. You pre qualify and make sure you can actually deliver what they need.

Jason Garner: Yeah. And again, they have a pre mostly have a preexisting relationship with the bank already. So for me, there's. There's an accountability to me to come in and, and, and enhance that relationship rather than ruin it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Kind of important. Must be it must be fun to, you know, I mean, obviously it's a massive team behind the scenes with you at BBC.

That must be interesting to navigate. I know that it can be challenging sometimes working between multiple departments, behind the scenes.

Jason Garner: It's, you know, it's again, I spent 25 years in private industry. So there was. Always see the rules and methods and different things that had to be accomplished. And there's a lot of check boxes working for a company like BDC.

What I love about the team that I work with here in Edmonton and Northern Alberta is that we're on the same page and it's all about the customer. And a lot of them have a lot of great experience navigating internally. So that's not left to me a lot. Cause I'm not super great at that. But when we get into the, the business advisors and delivery consultants, part of them, just unbelievably smart, nice people that.

Are doing this because they want to contribute back. They don't have to tip. Most of them are in retirement age that are could run their own business and go do their own thing. So, even at that level from, you know, from the banker and I going out to to my boss to the delivery consultants that live in the boss.

The focus is solely on the entrepreneur and it is just. Unbelievably refreshing and and I haven't seen anything different from that in the first 18 months. So I'm so I would say that's probably how it is. And again, you foster your internal relationships are equally as important to your external one, especially when you're navigating through projects and and a bunch of different things.

But I think, you know, teams is sort of opened up the world that you can you can if I've got a If I've got a retail strategy brand specialist out of Toronto that's worked with some of the biggest brands, then I can bring him into a project here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, because they don't need to fly down here and spend the time.

Yeah, so it is really opened up the opportunity for someone to. To have a very, very unique, special, custom made expert working on something in our small little town out here in the West. Right. So it's, yeah, it's really cool.

Kelly Kennedy: And you touched, you touched on something that's like so critical in business and that's, that's relationships.

And then I want to take that a step further and talk about trust, right? With what you do, people are trusting you with some pretty big things, right? They're asking you to guide them on a path that if it goes poorly, it could sink them, their family, their business. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like trust is so important in what you do.

Can you maybe take some time and elaborate on, on how you establish that trust with a customer?

Jason Garner: Yeah, it is. For myself personally, I take it as an incredible responsibility because again, it's, you know, it's. It's their money. It's their livelihood. It's their legacy. For the most part, you've, you know, people have 3 or 4 different family members working in it.

They're planning to build it to hand it off to their kids. It's like, it's a huge responsibility. I think it really. I, the sort of courtship process of it is, is for me can be quite long until I a hundred percent of should have vetted it to know that they know exactly what to expect. Yeah. There's a, there's a stigma out there about consulting, right?

Like if someone's been burnt back in the eighties and nineties and two thousands, you walk in and they're like, Oh yeah, no, we don't do consultants. Right. It's, but that's just the nature of the beast. Most people, you know, you can put a no solicitor sign on a door and not allow sales platoon. What other job can you say?

No, you can't come in. Right. So as you mentioned, no, no nurses.

Kelly Kennedy: So I've never thought about that, but you were 100%. Right. That's so funny.

Jason Garner: There's no other job that someone could put a sticker on their door and not allowing you in. It's yeah, but you have thick skin. And if you're in the sales game long enough.

Kelly Kennedy: I was going to say, how many times did you just, I didn't see that.

Jason Garner: I don't know what it is. No, you hammered it out. Trust is the number one factor. And I'll give a lot of credit to the bankers they're called BDLs by com bankers that have the existing relationships because they've built that inherently in there. So there's not only trust that's been built between BDC and the customer already, then the banker has to have trust in me that I'm going to come in and do the relationship justice.

Yeah, so there's trust internally and there's trust externally. But the number one thing that I do is my first couple meetings with the customer. I said, tell me about your business. I'm not coming in with any preconceived notion. I'm not coming in with any agenda or pitch because it's I love sitting across.

And what I like to do is I like to walk around the building or the shop too, because I feel you can tell a lot about the culture, a lot about how these people lead, a lot about how people interact. With the owners and presidents to see, you know, what type of leader they are and people they are of their word.

So I just really sort of roll up our sleeves and get in for a significant amount of time before we even move to. What I think, where I think we can help and I think that when you, when you are interested in them, you become interesting to them. Yes. And so that's where the trust is built for sure. And we've walked away from stuff.

We've walked away from some of the greatest people because it's just not a great fit. We walked away from some of the worst people because it's not a good fit. They walked away from us because it's not a good fit. This isn't 100 percent business. Right, so.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, you're right. It's like, it's got to be a win win scenario and it's got to be something you can actually do.

You can actually help with. Right. And so you're absolutely right. And I, you know, I mean, I hope what some of the takeaways that people are getting from this is it's really important to know your limits. It's really important to know whether or not you can actually accomplish something before you bite it off.

And yeah, if that takes a little bit of extra time to do your research, it is worth Every penny of that time it takes to do that research because you don't want to end up in a project halfway through and be like, Oh my gosh, I don't think I can do this.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and I think that 6 percent that isn't happy with it and that's just it, right?

They just either we didn't vet it good enough. The. You know, some things changed, you know, we've had, we've been developing strategy plans with people and they've sold their business, which is great, right? Like you do, you run the business, but for the most part, and where that 94 percent comes in is it's just from the start of the program to the end of the program, there's been a great relationship built on trust and philosophy that we're going in the same direction and that we are going to, at the end of the program, be there with you.

As you launch it, as you work for your business, as you manage this three to five year plan, and we're not going anywhere. And I think that too builds trust. When, when you know that it's not a one and done methodology of consulting, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Well, not to mention if you're working with somebody for three to five years, it's pretty hard not to develop a pretty strong relationship with them.

Jason Garner: Yeah, no, for sure. We have like small business week mixtures and stuff like that. And you should the, the relationships that we have with our clients, much like most companies have relationships with their top clients as well. It's a great, it's a great, I love hearing success stories of, of companies locally that we helped with.

And then they come and they meet other ones and that peer to peer connection and, and just using the resources past, you know, working on the program and continuing to see what other programs will help, like that's the value of it. Right. It's sort of developing strong relationships, healthy companies and repeat.

Repeat business and relationships.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, and, and, and, you know, like you said, just like the sheer reach of, of available experts that you guys have in your roster, right? I think I was reading online, it's over 500 different subject matter experts across the country. Like, I can't think of anything you probably couldn't find a subject matter expert for.

Jason Garner: Well, you know, when we do, we do a lot of financial management for Trucking companies and manufacturing companies. And so we've got a, we've got a delivery network of, of people that have been in that business, run companies understand trucking and manufacturing better than probably the entrepreneurs themselves.

Where would you have, where would you get that expertise? Right. So, we do a lot of work here in Northern Alberta with a lot of the manufacturing and and trucking and transportation companies a lot. Yeah, it's usually that's it's usually right in that second silo. It's usually in that. How do I know I'm growing profitably?

Kelly Kennedy: Because it's not being really challenging at a at a once you get to a larger scope.

Jason Garner: Yeah, well, and I think, you know, 1 of the things we talked about, and I'm stealing this from a really smart guy in Toronto that came in and talked to us. It's the, you know, a lot of this, and I'm generalizing in northern Alberta, because there's so many different types of businesses, but what we run into significant amount would be companies, you know, people that started working for a big oil and gas company or a big manufacturing company and then said, I can do this part of this better and jump out and start on their own.

And so it started with one truck at 0 and now it's 11, 000, 000 company with 7 trucks and and your friend is this your friend is the accountant so you so you've just all of a sudden graduated to not working at a company you own you've you've created a corporation. And at some point for entrepreneurs you just can't do it all.

So it's, we call it a crisis of delegation where we deal with a lot of customers that are in the crisis of delegation. You need to, right. So it's like, I've been everything to everybody. I've worked 20 hours a day. Yeah, this is getting too big. I've lost, I've lost why I've started this. I don't know how to keep running this the way I'm running it.

I can't keep running it the way I'm running it. Yeah. How can you guys help? And it really is that crisis of delegation moment is just an entrepreneur saying, I want to go to, I want to take it to the next level. And I just can't. Can you help us figure that out?

Kelly Kennedy: I can. Yeah, I can definitely see that I can see people getting there and, and you're right.

It's like, It's like there's no like alarm bell that goes off and says, Hey, congratulations, you've made it right. You just, you're there and you got there the way that you got there, but you're right. It probably isn't sustainable the way that you were doing it. And sometimes I think it can be really hard.

Like you said, for entrepreneurs to see it a different way. And I mean, I even experienced this earlier with the way that we did proposals earlier in the year where until it was laid out in front of me and I saw the better way to do it. It was like, Oh, how did I not think of that? But I think it's really hard to see it sometimes from where you're sitting.

You need that outside perspective.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And it's, you know, why was I making more money at a 7 million company? And I am an 11 million company, right? Like those are the type of things that it's like, okay, you. You know, we will bring in some resources to help you understand your business, develop a model moving forward, you know, implement that model and help train you on how to manage that and then be with you forever on it and make sure that it's the right thing.

Cause if not, then we'll come back and tweak it. So that type of resource for entrepreneurs that aren't. You know, graduated business owners, right? There are people that found a niche or a passion that they wanted to do. They started it and they've sort of maxed out on their business acumen to get it to the next level, which there is absolutely no shame in that.

Asking for guidance and help through a partner is just another aspect of being a smart business person.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes, yes. And and like the scope of projects you guys can take on to is absolutely astronomical. I was doing some digging 6000 projects since 2020 6000. How?

Jason Garner: Anything from 2 million pet shop to 140 million toy manufacturing company, right?

So there isn't really anything here that we don't Yeah, we don't touch, right? But again, those of those 6, 000, it's, we just have this unbelievably great relationship with a lot of entrepreneurs on the finance side that just really leads into the advice side.

Kelly Kennedy: Sure. Yeah, it's so much more than a bank.

And that's why I wanted to do this. I really wanted to show people that there is so much more here than just money. There is, there is, there's complete support.

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah. And the programs run again, anything from 2 million to 2 billion. And we've got some very, very high end programs that, you know, the companies have to be 50 million plus, they've got to have a leadership team.

And it's really built on taking your business to the next level, having offsite education retreats in, in Kingsburg and Toronto with, with peer connections. So it's not just. The mom and pop our wheelhouse, you know, here in northern Alberta is very, very, you know, 5 to 10 to 15 million that type of stuff.

But nationally, we, we've got programs for high end. high revenue, high impact type customers. So if you're listening, just ask, connect with somebody, figure out what we can do, right?

Kelly Kennedy: What is like, what is the overarching purpose and goal of BDC Canada? What, what is it that you guys are trying to accomplish?

Jason Garner: Across the board. And I think it's, again, I think it's on a commercial. It's just helping entrepreneurs reach their dreams. And that is like, again, that's like marketing tagline. That's it in a nutshell. Right. That said, in a nutshell is I'm a local guy, right? So born and raised in Edmonton, not leaving. I shopped local, I eat local, all those different, like, so for me to one of the things I said when I was was looking at joining the job, it's just like, just want to help at this point, because the last 25 years it's in that sales game.

It's been going after going after them to get this product or service. And Cause I need to hit the budget. I need to do this, right? This, this job is helping entrepreneurs. The bankers help entrepreneurs. The advisory services helps entrepreneurs. That's what it, that's what our entire mandate is and all of the metrics that are driven internally through you know, through how we approach customers, how the customers feel about us, how long the programs are taking, how engaged they are post program.

Every metric that we measure is customer satisfaction based. Mm hmm. Instead of profit based or growth based.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, it seems to me that because it's a crown corporation, it really has to be about what's good for the people. It has to be. And I think, and I think on some level, and I don't want to, I don't want to single out other.

Other, you know, services, other locations, things along those lines. But on some level, I do feel like that has to, that has to count for something. Yeah. Like, you know, obviously we need our banks. We need, we need our support services, right? But, but in this particular case, being a crown corporation, it is in the government's best interest for Canadian Business to succeed.

And which is why I think this is maybe in your best interest as well.

Jason Garner: Yeah. That's just the, that's the messaging. From the minute you wake up to the minute you stop working is. Is it's, it's for the customer and that's, and if it's not, if you're not that type of person, then it doesn't last year for you.

Right. So, yeah,

Kelly Kennedy: you know, like we've done a lot of talking, we've talked about advisory services. Is there, is there specifically companies that you guys prefer to work with or that right now they fit a mandate? Like obviously in Edmonton, you know, we're a fast growing tech sector. Is tech a priority? Are there companies that are more of a priority than others at this time?

Jason Garner: I don't know if it's Industry based, I think for for for customers to have a successful advisory experience they have to be coachable. They have to be, they have to want to grow or grow profitably. And they have to want to invest a little bit of time and money on getting better technology.

Absolutely. Right. So we, we do a significant amount of technology mandates. And we're just we're just getting into AI all the different things, right? Just trying to figure out how that, you know, as a resource to customers, I'll come and say, well, how how is going to work for me? Well, we don't really know that yet, but our resources were putting a lot of resources to figuring out how we can.

Assistant help customers that way, but technology, you know, the Federal Government launched a program 2. 5 years ago. Don't hang me on that called the Canadian Digital Adoption Program, which was a grant program for customers to. Reinvest in their technology, understand their technology, work better with their technology, and then the government would give them 90 percent back up to 15, 000.

And then you would have the ability to get an interest free loan. To go and execute what the recommendations are from that Canadian digital adoption program. So, you know, it's not, that's not a BDC thing. There's other people that can do that for you, but we really grasped it and said, hey, like, this is an opportunity for a lot of small to medium customers to really get experts to dig into your technology.

Help you be a healthier company on the federal government's grant dime and then support you moving forward. That, that program's ending in September. Okay. We've been very, very successful with a lot of customers in, in doing that. But it shows you to your point that there is a understanding that as, as a country we are not in the top X percentage of companies that are best with tech and that we need our Canadian companies to sharpen their skates a little bit and understand how technology can make them a better, healthier, stronger, more productive company.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yes. And I, I think whether we like it or not, that's going to happen. And I don't want to call it selection of the fittest or, you know, survival of the fittest, but is that not what happens to people who don't, who don't keep up anyway? I think what you're trying to say is we want more companies to make it without, without having to be survival of the fittest.

Yeah. Right?

Jason Garner: Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. And I would, again, like I would say probably 75 percent of the, I would say 80 percent of the businesses that we work with on advisory. Yeah. Our healthy, smart, growing, proactive companies, we're not, you know, we're not conditioned to put out fires and, and, and be salvage dogs were, we're working with companies that are really wanting to get better.

They know that better is better and they know they need to help getting better and technology has been a big, big, big part of that. And just even like, you know, websites back in 10 years ago were, were just where you could find your product in order. Well, now there's, you know, every website used to be a selling website.

It should be matching and attaching. Different, different items that go with that. It should be, you know, calculating return buys and building baskets. And, you know, just even in that, it's just like. Just because you have a website doesn't mean you're using your website to help your business.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Well, I always say in the 21st century, your website is your 20 story skyscraper, right?

It really is for any business, right? You can, you can look or be as big as you want to be on your website. So you should do the best you can. It's good on the app. Yeah. You know, Obviously we've kind of talked into it. We've talked to who's a good fit. What are the services available? You know, one of the things that we talked about was you've had some pretty cool success stories.

You don't have to name some names, but do you want to maybe just give us a couple success stories that you've been a part of?

Jason Garner: Yeah, I think, you know, just on the technology side, we worked with this company that deals with vintage games and, and, and vintage product, super, super great company. They.

They started, they have an ERP system that they had selected, but it wasn't really keeping up with their growth from a, from a shipping and inventory point of view. So we brought in a team again, not to reinvent what they were doing and tell them what they were doing wrong. We said, they said, this is what we use.

How can we use it better? And we brought in a very, very experienced team on the ERP side to help them, you know, decide on a couple of different bolt ons and they've grown their business three times in the last year. And they started at 40 million bucks. So again, it wasn't one of those things where they, you know, they, again, I just, they were doing really, really great, but knew that they didn't have the resources to figure out how to fix this.

And that we did. And so we brought in some experts that spent a significant time figuring out how they want the next three, five years to look because just fixing this right now wasn't the fix. It's how do we put something in place that grows with your business? Because you guys are going to the moon.

Yeah. So that's a good one because again, it wasn't, it wasn't so much the company was in peril. It was, they knew they wanted to get better and didn't know how to get better. And then we just, again, like I said, we work with a lot of trucking and, and companies and there's this really, really great trucking and construction company here in Edmonton.

They had four different opcos all on four different systems, not reporting themselves. They had no idea where their money was going and where it was coming. So we sat down and we worked with them. Most mandates take, you know, most programs take six to eight weeks. We've been working with these guys for about a year to really fine tune a financial model that allows everything to roll up into one so that it's not just about where are things right now.

Yeah. It's about how can we use our money to grow, expand, how can we work on our cash flow. Cash flow is a big problem here. Yes. In Northern Alberta, because the AR on a lot of people's businesses is 90 to 120 days. Yeah. And you're fronting the cash for the job, right? So, you know, that's a generalization again, but we see that a lot.

So, so another really strong company. That knew that they needed to help to sort of figure out how to look at this thing as at a really real top level. And we engaged with some of our top financial guys that have construction and manufacturing and transportation experience to really build them out a dashboard and model.

So that they can, they can now grow and they're, they've already expanded into Calgary and Saskatoon just based on them understanding how to work their money better. Stuff like that. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I know we have a bunch of people listening right now, Jason, and they're thinking. Okay, like, this sounds really good, but how, what are some of the keywords you could maybe give them to just let them know, yeah, like, we could help you?

What are some of the, what are some of the problems they could be having that would, that would make them a great candidate to reach out to you?

Jason Garner: If you are wondering why you're not As profitable as you, you should be, give us a shout. If you want to expand into the U S and China, give us a shout. If you want to revamp your website to make it a selling website and recreate your brand and market to the right people, give us a shout.

If you want to completely revamp or tweak how you hire people and attract people and retain people for sure, right? If there's so many things I'm missing, so many things, if you want to just grow your business, if you want to get it, if you want your business to be healthier, you want to just sit down with someone with no strings attached for some advice on.

On where we think we can help you and take it. Give us a shout. There's really nothing that we wouldn't entertain, but there's a type of person that is the type of person for advisory services and consulting. And that, like I said before, someone that listens that's that's coachable that wants to grow their business or wants to get more profitable that is willing to be vulnerable and and show us your scars and warts so that we know exactly what we're dealing with.

So, again, it's just such a great job because you get to sit with so many really interesting people that are just trying to do their best and have done phenomenal and just listen to their story and see if you can help. So. Yeah, wouldn't turn away anybody to have that initial conversation for sure. And you don't have to be a financial partner with BDC.

And that's another big thing too is, you know, we run into saying, Oh, well, I don't, I don't have any loans with you guys. So I can't use you. That's not the case. Right. Yeah. The consulting and advisory services relationship is also standalone.

Kelly Kennedy: Perfect. And obviously you're talking to an absolute ton of entrepreneurs around the world, Jason.

Yeah. What would be, you know, what would be the best piece of advice that you think you could give them?

Jason Garner: Don't be afraid to ask for help. Even the best business owners and presidents of the world have a network of people around them to, to bounce stuff off and to ask questions too. There's, it shows strength to me as a business owner to use all your resources.

Amazing. Reach out, reach out, build a network of people too, right? So we're all the CPS are fairly connected. And there's a lot of times where I talked to someone and said, yeah, it's really not my wheelhouse, but here's a guy. And I think that that is just smart business is to start to connect and, and, you know, the webs that happen under you with all the connections and who, you know, and who you don't knows.

Yeah, it's just about networking and reaching out and seeing if there's somewhere there I can give you a hand and better is better, right? If you're running a phenomenal business and, and you want to take it to the moon in the next three and five years and. And you want to, you need a little bit of help or resources or understanding where that can, how you can do that, you know, which puts you in front of the right people to help you do that.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, you hit on it earlier, you don't know what you don't know. And you know, I mean, that's a lesson I learned a long time ago. And I take that into every single interaction I have because I'm well aware that I only know my limited experience. And there are going to be a lot of scenarios in my life where that's not going to be enough.

And, and that's okay. And that's okay. Yeah. Because we're all there.

Jason Garner: Yeah, the, the long range risk of comfortable inaction are often more expensive than than the cost of action. Right? Yeah, I'm not not doing it is going to cost you a lot more than doing it in the long run is is typically what we see.

But you just have to, you just have to sort of figure out what you want and, and connect.

Kelly Kennedy: Well, and the cool thing about this is, is that if people do recognize that this is where they're at, and they're like, Oh no, you know what? I think I do need support. I think I do need these services, but maybe we can't quite afford that right now.

We're in a tight cashflow issue. Like you said, there's, there's loans available through your service, right? So you can get both at the same time, which is also really cool.

Jason Garner: Yeah, for sure. And I typically I bring the banker with me a lot and I go out with them a lot because you know, the conversation evidently turns to what as a, as a whole organization can we do for the entrepreneurs?

So yeah, and again, you're right. It's there's a lot of companies that are in cash flow situations that they, they want to do, but they can't do. And We can talk about that as well, for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Awesome. If people are listening to this, Jason and they're thinking they're resonating with this, they wanna reach out to you or they wanna reach out to BDC Canada, what is the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Jason Garner: That's a great question. 'cause we don't really have sort of a national call center to defer. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn and then I can, and I'm pretty connected across the country and can get you in the right place at the right time with the right person for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Perfect. Perfect. Well, that takes us to the end of our show today, Jason.

This has been episode 110. This is our part two of BDC Canada. We were on today with Jason Garner, partner of advisory services right here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Jason, it's been an honor. You and Rob Lajoie. Have been amazing. Amazing to interview. You brought so much knowledge and I think a great understanding to what the Business Development Bank of Canada is all about and on behalf of entrepreneurs everywhere.

Thank you for doing that.

Jason Garner: Thanks for having me much. Appreciate it.

Kelly Kennedy: Until next time, this has been the business development podcast, and we will catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the business development podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry. And founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development. Your business development specialists. For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the business development podcast.